BOARD OF WATER SUPPLY
COUNTY OF MAUI
REGULAR MEETING


Taken at the HGEA Conference Room, David Trask
Building, Wailuku, Maui, Hawaii, commencing at
9:00 a.m. on June 8, 2000.


Reported By:  Rachelle Primeaux, CSR #370
              Iwado Court Reporters, Inc.


ATTENDANCE:

Members Present:
Elmer Cravalho, Chair
Peter Rice
Bob Takitani
Orlando Tagorda
Mike Nobriga
Clark Hashimoto

Staff Present:
David Craddick, Director
Howard Fukushima, Corporation Counsel
Fran Nago, Secretary
George Tengan
Mike Quinn


BOARD OF WATER SUPPLY
REGULAR MEETING


CHAIR CRAVALHO:  Shall we proceed to call the
meeting to order.  Today is June the 8th, and this is
the Board of Water Supply meeting.  Members who are
present, myself as Chairperson, Mr. Tagorda as Vice
Chair, Mr. Hashimoto, Mr. Rice, Mr. Nobriga.  There is
a quorum present.  We reserve the right later to have
Ms. Nago introduce members of the audience as well as
others who may wish to participate on any item that is
on the agenda this morning.

The Chair, unless there is any great objection,
would want to move the agenda, one item on the agenda
to a primary position which will be the first we will
consider after introductions made by Ms. Nago.  That
would be the movement of the communication and the
matter of Mr. Jackson.  That's under communications on
Page 3 I believe, Communication Number 00-24, request
from Glenn Jackson which we would want to handle first
thing after the introduction by Ms. Nago.  Proceed,
please.  Staff and members of the audience.

MS. NAGO:  Okay.  We have David Craddick, the
Director; Mike Quinn, Fiscal Officer; George Tengan is
our Deputy Director.  We have Harry Eager, Glenn
Jackson, David Niehaus, John Rapacz, Charles Freitas,
Teryl Vincyl, Donald O'Connor, Marty Ostalan, Hugh
Starr.  We have Soloma Hoopai, Jr.  We have Harold
Silva, Edwin Young, Donna Ting, Linda Broadway, Karen
Regan, Joseph Viliarimo and Joni Kawano.

CHAIR CRAVALHO:  Thank you very much.  Shall we
proceed to consideration then of Communication 00-24,
a request for Mr. Glenn Jackson for installation of a
water meter.  Are members familiar with that
particular request?  Mr. Jackson, you wish to address
the Board?  Proceed, please.

MR. JACKSON:  Yes, good morning, Mr. Chairman,
David, Members of the Board, good morning, staff.
Mr. Chairman, would you please proceed in the most
direct manner.  Thank you.

CHAIR CRAVALHO:  The direct manner is for the
approval of your request.  My understanding is you
wish to have this taken on a priority basis and the
decision made forthwith.  In case you wish to have
anything to add or a statement to make, it's all in
your hands right now.

MR. JACKSON:  Mr. Chairman, could you issue me a
water meter today.

CHAIR CRAVALHO:  That's the decision for the
Board to make, and this is a pending matter.  If
there's anything you wish to add to convince the Board
and to explain the essential nature of your request,
this is the time to do so, and we are prepared -- the
Chair is prepared to act on the request.

MR. JACKSON:  Okay.  The only addition I would
have to make would be that as of June 1st, my loan has
gone up to 95 percent of its maximum, and I believe
you have all the other statements in your file.

CHAIR CRAVALHO:  Thank you very much.  It is the
opinion of the Chair, if the Chair may, that based on
the presentations that have been made and the
essential nature of the request before us that the
request be -- the Chair's recommendation is that the
request be granted for the installation of the meter.
Mr. Nobriga.

MR. NOBRIGA:  So approve, Mr. Chairman.

CHAIR CRAVALHO:  Is there a second?

MR. RICE:  Second.

CHAIR CRAVALHO:  You've heard the motion duly
made and seconded for the approval for the
installation of the meter for Mr. Jackson.  Any
discussion?

(No response.)

CHAIR CRAVALHO:  Hearing none, all in favor say
"Aye."

VOICES:  Aye.

MR. TAGORDA:  I'm voting no.

CHAIR CRAVALHO:  We haven't gotten to that yet.
We're just calling the roll.  Let's observe
parliamentary procedure.  All in favor signify by
saying "Aye."

VOICES:  Aye.

CHAIR CRAVALHO:  Those opposed.

MR. TAGORDA:  No.

CHAIR CRAVALHO:  May the record reflect one no.
Proceed.  Shall we go back to the usual then agenda.

MR. CRADDICK:  That doesn't pass.

CHAIR CRAVALHO:  Mr. Craddick.

MR. CRADDICK:  I just --

CHAIR CRAVALHO:  Mr. Craddick, as the Chair has
advised you in the past, you are not the tenth member
of the Board.  The Chair is well aware of the
decisions and well aware of the vote.  Should the
Chair desire any assistance from you, the Chair wishes
to assure you that you will be requested.

MR. CRADDICK:  Okay.

CHAIR CRAVALHO:  And it would be very helpful as
the Chair has said in the past if you would adhere to
these processes.  The system that we had at some times
where the Director was able to unceremoniously
interfere, those days are gone.  I want you to know
that.

Shall we then proceed with the agenda that's
before us.  First item is old business.  We have the
director's reports, one, two, three, testimony from
the public.  Public testimony comes up when there is a
scheduled matter as noted, okay.

Director's reports, we have, one, Request for
approval to write off $24,461.92 of uncollected
accounts.  The Chair wishes to express its concern not
about the write-off proposal, which may be quite
adequate.  The Chair is extremely concerned of the
listing of names of individuals which could very well
be a violation of the rights of privacy.  And the
Chair would like to respectfully request that that
particular portion dealing with the listing of names
be withdrawn and that the subject matter contained in
the letter be referred to the Finance Committee for
appropriate review and appropriate action.

The Chair wishes to reemphasize again the very
grave importance that the Chair attaches to the
protection of the rights of privacy of people and
members and our constituents of this particular Board
of Water Supply.  And if inadvertently an error is
made, let us then correct it so that we do not become
liable for the potential infraction.

Shall we proceed to old business.  Item A,
revised committee report 99-31.  From the Oversight
Committee, the Chair recognizes Mr. Nobriga.

MR. NOBRIGA:  Mr. Chairman, a report is included
in the packet.  Move that we approve -- move that we
waive the fire restrictions and approve amendments to
the Hoekstra family.

MR. HASHIMOTO:  Second.

CHAIR CRAVALHO:  You've heard the motion duly
made and seconded for the adoption of the committee
report and thereby waive the requirements of the fire
protection as requested by attorney and by the
client.  Any discussion?  Mr. Rapacz.

MR. RAPACZ:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.  John
Rapacz on behalf of the Hoekstra family.  I would just
like the record to be clear we are permitted to use
the one-and-a-half-inch meter for domestic service on
the three lots as well as fire protection.

CHAIR CRAVALHO:  Is that the consensus of the
committee?

MR. NOBRIGA:  Yes.

CHAIR CRAVALHO:  If that is the understanding of
the committee, are we ready for the question.  All in
favor say "Aye."

VOICES:  Aye.

CHAIR CRAVALHO:  Contrary?

MR. TAGORDA:  No.

CHAIR CRAVALHO:  One no.  The committee report
stands as adopted.  The action recommended, the Chair
is well aware of the statutory requirements for the
passage of any proposal, and, therefore, it shall be
applied, which is you don't have five.

It is the opinion -- it is the position of the
Chair and the ruling of the Chair that this particular
matter may be considered at an appropriate -- at a
subsequent time when there is a meeting called and
perhaps a larger membership participation and
presence.

Shall we go on to the next item then.  From the
request of David Niehaus, waiver of the fire
protection requirements.  Mr. Nobriga.

MR. NOBRIGA:  Mr. Chairman, the committee report
is attached.  We move that the Board waive fire
protection for Mr. David Niehaus.

CHAIR CRAVALHO:  Is there a second?

MR. HASHIMOTO:  Second.

CHAIR CRAVALHO:  You've heard the motion duly
made and seconded.  Any discussion?

MR. HASHIMOTO:  I have one question on that.

CHAIR CRAVALHO:  Mr. Hashimoto.

MR. HASHIMOTO:  I guess in the agreement on
September 1st, 1993, I guess he was given final
approval of a subdivision and there were subject to
certain conditions in that the subdivider shall comply
with the requirements of the rules and regulations of
the Department in effect at this time if and when any
lot within the subdivision is further subdivided or
developed.  So I'm just wondering if this fire
protection is part of that.

MR. CRADDICK:  I'll leave that up to the
attorney there.

CHAIR CRAVALHO:  Is there a question being
directed to the attorney?

MR. HASHIMOTO:  Whoever can answer it.

MR. FUKUSHIMA:  Just for clarification, the
question is does that particular provision that was by
the member apply to this subdivision?

MR. HASHIMOTO:  That's my question because he's
adding another building.

MR. FUKUSHIMA:  Well, it would apply to this
subdivision.  The presumption being that the
additional work and the facilities that Mr. Niehaus
has installed are meeting with the Department's
requirements.

MR. HASHIMOTO:  Okay.

MR. TAGORDA:  Mr. Chairman.

CHAIR CRAVALHO:  Mr. Tagorda.

MR. TAGORDA:  I think, first of all, I would
like to compliment and applaud the Committee Chair of
the Oversight Committee and members on doing a good
job on finding factual things about this Niehaus
case.  This Haleakala homestead subdivision, I think
I'm very familiar with it from its inception way back
in '93.  I've got all the facts with me.  Mr. Niehaus,
I think went into agreement with the Board of Water
Supply way back in '92 to comply with certain
requirements imposed by the Department, especially on
fire protection.

And he got lucky on his third dwelling that this
agreement was not pursued by the Department.  So he
got his third dwelling.  Now, he's coming to this
Board for a fourth dwelling and fifth structure,
Mr. Chairman.  And I don't recall any in the past --

CHAIR CRAVALHO:  The Chair is going to request
that your discussion be limited to the pending motion
before the body, which is the approval of the
recommendations and the committee report, so anyone
speaking on that, if it's separate and distinct from a
point of information, then the speaker is required to
make reference to speaking either for or against the
pending motion.  Are you speaking against?

MR. TAGORDA:  I'm speaking against, Mr. Chairman.
Let me elaborate.

CHAIR CRAVALHO:  One moment.  Anytime a person
speaks for or against, it's much easier if you so
indicate at the very beginning and the Chair
recognizes that and just proceed speaking against the
pending motion.  Proceed.

MR. TAGORDA:  I am strongly against it,
Mr. Chairman, in approving the request of Mr. Niehaus
on so many grounds.  First of all, this person have
fourth and fifth structure in that property, and I
don't recall anything in the past that this Board have
waived for fire protection for that three or more
dwellings in the lot.

Again, I think we had to give our provision of
fire protection a strict adherence, Mr. Chair.  It was
his choosing to live up there, and our inadequate
transmission lines cannot go all the way to his
property.  And getting back to all this facts that he
mentioned about that transmission line that was built
way back when his first subdivision was approved, I
don't think the Board should be thinking much of those
because I don't think Mr. Niehaus had -- he has a
valid reason to threaten us about that transmission
line that cut across his property.  I know that we
have those easements, that the Board have right now,
and if he goes to court, I think we will prevail.

And even if we don't approve his request for
waiver of fire protection, we have a good agreement
that was signed by Mr. Niehaus and wife in 1992 that
he will comply with the Board or the Department's
requirements on fire protection.  And now, again, a
lot of thing came up with this.  He came again and
trying to disprove or say that what he have there he
had the right pressure.  So the staff went to check
all the fire requirements and they found out, the
staff who is very expert in the field, that he doesn't
have the required fireproof protection, Mr. Chairman.

And all of these facts I'm telling you now, it
just bothers me and I sympathize with Mr. Niehaus,
Mr. Chair.

CHAIR CRAVALHO:  The Chair would again like to
request that all discussions be limited to the pending
motion.  The Chair fully understands the great
sympathy and that members of the Board may have on any
particular that's a matter I think of public record
and public acceptance.  However, it would be very nice
if we did restrict ourselves to the pending motion
before us.  Pau?  One moment, please.

Again, the Chair would like to prevail and ask
all parties to follow parliamentary procedure and
every single person who wishes to express himself and
herself will be given that opportunity.  There will be
no denials, okay, but let us proceed in a very orderly
manner.  The Chair wishes to recognize the presence of
Mr. Takitani, so the total number present has been
increased by one, and we have six.  The pending motion
before us deals with a particular committee report.

If anyone wishes to speak on this committee
report and the pending motion, they are allowed to do
so at the present time.  However, in fairness and out
of deference to the late arrival of Mr. Takitani, the
Chair would like to recommend that this matter be
deferred to the end of the calendar to enable Mr.
Takitani to review the situation and develop his own
position.  It will be handled today, okay, unless
there's a motion to the contrary, but it will be.
This is merely a deferral.  Any objection?

(No response.)

CHAIR CRAVALHO:  If not, so ordered.  Can we
then proceed to the next item, a request from
Mr. Charles Freitas.  Mr. Nobriga.

MR. NOBRIGA:  Mr. Chairman, we are still
actively seeking more information and communications.
00-04 will be deferred.

CHAIR CRAVALHO:  That's a request of the
Committee Chairman?

MR. NOBRIGA:  Yes.

CHAIR CRAVALHO:  So noted.  Mr. Freitas, you
wish to make a comment for presentation to the Board?

MR. FREITAS:  Okay.  I have certain items I was
going to talk about and information.  I was going to
even write them down per your request about, number
one, being patient, number two, keeping a cool head,
and number three, writing things down.  After writing
a bunch of items down, I found out that it was pretty
much focused on character assassination and I didn't
want to go there.

But it's very clear to me that, number one, you
know, after my current testimony that you folks, that
the Board has -- do you not have them?  Please bring
your homework.  You know, the whole testimony
basically stated that I was in regulation with the
Planning Department, and I followed that procedure at
great expense.  As you know, I have ten acres.  It was
subdivided or it was actually not subdivided.  It was
CPR'ed, and we allowed the other people to build their
house and then I was going to build mine because we
were waiting for finances.  We did that.  This is my
second permit.  The first permit went through.

The second permit is now to build a small farm
dwelling for my family.  The question is the
legality.  What is the legal -- what are the laws
basically for the Water Department?  The Planning
Department says you can have two dwellings on ten
acres and the second one has to be less than a
thousand square feet.  I don't understand how the
Water Department can come in and say, no, no, we
consider that a subdivision, but the Planning
Department doesn't.  So there's nonalignment here.
There's incongruity, very incongruent.

That is my first question, the legality from the
Water Department to go ahead and make its own rules
apart and not following the Planning Department.  The
second thing, of course, is professionalism.  I'm sure
that, and again, I don't want to get into character
assassinations, but I feel Mr. Craddick is probably a
very competent engineer.  Administratively, it's
questionable, okay.  And this is due to a bunch of --
and I don't want to get into hearsays, I'm not going
there, but culturally insensitive and also back room
discussions with other realtors, you know, I don't
want to get into.

Another thing is the result of all this has
created not only emotional stress, emotional abuse and
mental anguish to my family and myself.  You know, I
kind of question the competency of the Board in the
sense of the length of time to resolve this issue.
You know, if a student comes to me and asks me a
question I do not know, at my next meeting, I will
know that question or at least have a sufficient
answer for him.  I feel this length of time here has
gone way beyond your ability to resolve this issue.
Okay.

I asked in the very beginning that I not be a
pawn in a political conflict between realtors, lawyers
and the Water Board.  As a family therapist, I know
what triangulation is.  I got pulled in it real
clear.  I said I don't want to play that game.  It's
case by case.  There's no reason in my mind looking at
everything that has been said and done that I don't
have a permit to -- a signature on my permit from the
Water Board.  None.  And, in fact, sometimes I get
kind of a little ashamed at what are you guys doing
here.  This is a clear, simple issue.

It's about a family.  It's not about water.
It's not about a permit.  What is it about?  It's
about the Water Board and the realtors.  It's a real
estate issue, not a water issue.  I don't want to get
pulled into it.  So I'm going to be very firm.

CHAIR CRAVALHO:  Mr. Freitas, the Chair --

MR. FREITAS:  The final --

CHAIR CRAVALHO:  Mr. Freitas, when the Chair
addresses you, the Chair would like to have the proper
respect and recognition and allow the Chair to say
what he wishes to say and that would be very helpful.
In the discussions you had with me, and as far as I'm
concerned, everything is out in the open, I did ask
you to be highly professional.  And I believe that any
aspersion that hits on the character of this Board as
distinct or separated from any other element of
Government, such an allegation is highly improper and
lacks the professionalism I believe that I'm entitled
to expect from you.

The Chair would request that you extend to the
members of this Board the highest possible regard for
its professionalism and its objectivity because I
believe to this date and to this time, this Board has
functioned in that manner.  Maybe not to your complete
satisfaction, the Chair recognizes that, but the
objectives and the quality and the character of this
Board individually and collectively is a very high one
and I would like to have your cooperation if
possible.  Thank you.

MR. FREITAS:  And following that statement, I do
agree that they're very competent people here.  And in
saying so, then I know that you will make a final
decision that will be firm, absolute and that you
could go home and sit on your toilet and wash your
dishes in a sink and have the conscience that of your
decision of today.  This decision will be today.  Any
deferment I will consider that a negative results.

I believe that the time has come to stop passing
the buck and deferring this issue.  I believe that
this issue should be, at this point in time, it's
sufficient enough time for you folks to make a
reasonable decision on this issue, and, you know,
that's just about it, guys, I mean clear and simple,
you know.

I'm within the parameter of the law, you know.
I need to -- it's caused me great, great problems.  My
bonding agent lost my papers which took three months
because of the time issue.  I've lost contractors
because of the time issue, you know.  I've been
patient with the Board, you know.  I respect the
Board.  And it is my opinion that and also through my
perspective that a reasonable decision can be made now
at this time.

CHAIR CRAVALHO:  The Chair appreciates your
comments and the Chair would like to have the
appropriate board member and appropriate chairperson
take this into consideration; however, the pending
matter is for the deferral, and the Chair would like
to suggest to you that we review this.

MR. FREITAS:  Then if that's the case, I am
protesting, and I'm going to have to be arrested and
taken out of here.  I want the decision, and I want it
now.  I've been very patient with the Board.

CHAIR CRAVALHO:  The Chair will make a ruling.
The motion that has come before us --

MR. FREITAS:  I will go to any lengths.

CHAIR CRAVALHO:  One moment.  If it is your wish
to enter into a discussion subsequently, be my guest.
No problem.  That will not defer or deter the Chair
from making a ruling.  I want you to understand that.
The ruling of the Chair, the matter is deferred.  The
ruling of the Chair can be overcome and can be
appealed.  In order to appeal the ruling of the Chair,
the appeal needs to be made by a member of the board,
seconded by a member of the board.  The Chair has
ruled it is deferred.  Proceed to the next item.

MR. FREITAS:  I need a yes or no.

CHAIR CRAVALHO:  It has been deferred.  Your
request is recognized.

MR. FREITAS:  I need a question or no.  I will
accept that as a no.

CHAIR CRAVALHO:  That's my pleasure and yours as
well.

MR. FREITAS:  Okay, fine.

CHAIR CRAVALHO:  Shall we proceed to the next
item.  It has been suggested we have a sort recess,
and I have no problem with that.  If there's no
objection, we have a short recess with the
understanding the ruling of the Chair is not going to
be changed.

MR. FREITAS:  Fine.

(Recess taken.)

CHAIR CRAVALHO:  The meeting will be
reconvened.  Shall we proceed then to Item D on old
business.  Mr. Freitas, the Chair recognizes you.

MR. FREITAS:  We I want to apologize for
disrupting the meeting and follow the procedure of the
deferral.  And I do want to mention that it is because
of my family and I will go to any extent to try and
get that permit and I will continue to follow the
procedure of the Water Board.

CHAIR CRAVALHO:  The Chair wishes to extend its
appreciation and thanks to you and to all of the other
people who participated officially and unofficially in
discussions with you that has resulted in this
finalization.  The Chair also wish to assure you that
every possible consideration will be given to you.

MR. FREITAS:  Thank you, sir.

CHAIR CRAVALHO:  Thank you.  Shall we then
proceed to Item D under old business.  Mr. Nobriga.

MR. NOBRIGA:  Mr. Chairman, the committee wishes
to defer action on Director's Report 00-15 to obtain
additional information from the Director.

CHAIR CRAVALHO:  Is there a second to the
motion?

MR. HASHIMOTO:  Second.

CHAIR CRAVALHO:  You heard the motion duly made
and seconded for the deferral of that particular
committee report for the purpose of receiving
additional information from the Director.  The Chair
would like to express the thought that whatever
information will be additional new information, not a
repetition of the past.  So ordered.  No objection, so
ordered.

Item E, discussion of possible action regarding
the issuing of water meters.  Along this area, there
may be others of the audience and members of the
public who would want to participate in the
discussion, Donna Ting for one and Linda Broadway, so
shall we proceed to get a motion made to get the
matter before the body.

MR. HASHIMOTO:  Mr. Chairman, the Legislative
Committee Report was made on June 2nd and the report
has been passed out.  Therefore, the committee
recommends and I move that the Board give the Director
approval to prohibit the installation of any new
meters or new service until December 31st, 2000, with
the evaluation of the drought situation after the
12/31 date and retroactive to when the drought was
declared on March 15, 2000.

MR. NOBRIGA:  Second.

CHAIR CRAVALHO:  Present motion duly made and
seconded.  The motion is for the adoption of the
committee report and the recommendations contained
therein for the enforcement of no meters being issued
and granted retroactive to the declaration of the
drought in March and up, effective up through 31st of
December, the year 2000, this year.  Is there any
discussion on this particular motion or the subject
matter?  Ms. Ting, did you wish to participate?

MS. TING:  Yes, I did.

CHAIR CRAVALHO:  Please do.  When you come in,
it would be nice or if you indicate whether you are
supporting in favor or against the motion or halfway
in between.

MS. TING:  I'm sitting on the fence, okay.

CHAIR CRAVALHO:  Okay, fine.

MS. TING:  Mr. Chairman, ladies and gentlemen,
my name is Donna Ting, and I've been a realtor for 30
years on Maui.  One of the reasons I'm here today is
Harmon -- Harmon Spencer bought a property in Pukalani
Terrace.  This is the old section of the Terrace that
was done by Frank Munoz and Donald Toganaka in the
early sixties.

Taxes have been paid on this property for 40
years.  He's ready to retire.  He's paid for his water
meter.  He can't build because there's no issuance of
a water meter.  All these years taxes have been paid
on that property.  Water was allocated for that
subdivision.  It's hardship for him.  It's a hardship
for a lot of people.  I mean I'm not only speaking
about him.  There are other people who have paid, it's
also been a hardship.  In essence, we're asking him to
keep paying taxes and not being able to use his land.

And, you know, you guys are in a very difficult
position because, as a realtor, we know prices are
based on supply and demand.  And essentially, what
you're doing today is anyone who doesn't have a water
meter now, their lots are fairly worthless.  You can't
do anything until meters will be issued, hopefully
December or January of next year.  Every year we've
had a drought.  May was the most -- the driest month
in over 50 years.  I know that.  I live in Kula.  I'm
appreciative of what your situation is, but there's
still a lot of people that are building and getting
water meters and getting construction meters, so some
way you need to formulate a more equitable situation
where people who have been paying property taxes for
more than 40 years have the right to use their land.

I mean essentially his land is worthless because
no one can build on it.  I don't have the answer.  I'm
just putting it out there for you.  Meanwhile, any lot
that does have a water meter, guaranteed $20,000
more.  It's worth that because people can build.  They
can use their land.  Thank you.

CHAIR CRAVALHO:  Any questions of Ms. Ting?

MR. RICE:  Mr. Chairman.  Ms. Ting, this
gentleman that owned the land for 40 years, he hasn't
been waiting for a meter for 40 years?

MS. TING:  No, he has not been waiting for a
meter for 40 years.  He applied for a meter the end of
March, early part of April.  Taxes have been paid on
this lot.

MR. RICE:  He's decided to purchase the lot.  He
subsequently then has to pay taxes and chose not to
build on it for 40 years.

MS. TING:  Right.

CHAIR CRAVALHO:  Any other discussion or
question?

MR. HASHIMOTO:  Why wouldn't they want to put a
meter on there on the property?

MS. TING:  Why didn't they?

MR. HASHIMOTO:  Why wouldn't they want to put a
meter, you know, before if they know they're going to
use -- either they're going to sell the land or
they're going to build on it, so why wouldn't they put
a meter on there?  I'm just asking the question.

MS. TING:  He lives in Honolulu.  In Honolulu,
they don't have the situation that we do on Maui where
water upcountry is mostly surface water.  They don't
have that situation.  They have aquifers over there,
so he did not realize the situation.  Had he realized,
he would have applied for a meter a long time ago.
Thank you.

CHAIR CRAVALHO:  Any further discussion?  It is
the understanding of the Chair that the motion is for
the adoption of the committee report, which does carry
the December 31st deadline of the year 2000.  I
believe -- the Chair believes also that if in the
wisdom or the lack of wisdom, the date is changed, any
time the date changes, the date will be effective.

Yes, there's another person wishes to testify.
Yes, ma'am.

MS. BROADWAY:  I'm Linda Broadway.  Anyway, I'm
Harmon's friend and I would like to I guess appeal to
you guys, you know, maybe and to other people that
have the same situation that it could be decided on on
a basis of the type of property it is versus, you
know, like if it's a subdivision that's been there for
years, that maybe you guys could allot meters to
certain individual people on the basis of how many
years that subdivision has been approved.  And I feel
like the charity lion here talking in the Wizard of Oz
here, but I'm not a speaker.  I just want to appeal to
you guys to do it maybe on a one-on-one basis as you
see fit.  I know you guys know your business, and I'm
in awe of the way you handle it.  I appreciate -- I do
live upcountry.  I follow the rules as much as I can.
My daughter helps me.  And I just want to appeal to
you guys to give this a second thought on Harmon's
water meter.

CHAIR CRAVALHO:  The Chair would like to bear
the indulgence of the members of the board.  If in
retrospect we take a look at what has been done within
a relative short time, it has brought a certain degree
of stability.  The question of the granting of meters
has been before this Board for many, many times.  The
question of the utilization of existing lists or
nonexisting lists and the alleged propriety or
impropriety of granting meters has been before this
Board to my knowledge for almost a year and this Board
has been working on it.

This particular decision of the Board is in
response to requests that have come in, and it is
implicitly understood that the other questions raised
along the line with respect to the setting up of a
priority listing, a system of applications will be
worked on by the respective committee.  And the
deadline or the time frame of December 31st has not
been plucked from up in the heavens.  That has been a
very definitive request that came to this Board by way
of the Farm Bureau in the past that did make these
recommendations that as we moved in a number of areas
and as we did provide for additional services and
water to the farmers up there in particular, that we
also be aware of the impact, real or potential, of the
granting of additional meters.

And keeping in mind at all times that the
farmers only source of income is through the
continuation of their farming enterprises.  And while
we do understand that there may be a slight waiting
period during this traumatic era where the rainfall
being so small statewide and nationwide that the
period of an additional six months, while it may be
painful, it is not necessarily of a major catastrophe,
this unknown.  So if we bear with the Board and give
the cooperation to the Board that the Board is
needing, I'm sure we're going to resolve a lot of
these questions.

Parenthetically, the Chair wishes to point out
that we have reached the agreement with the East Maui
area, the right of withdrawal and if we keep the
pumping going as we're supposed to and Mr. Craddick,
the Director, can testify that I'm on the phone with
him almost every day to make that and to questioning
the amount of storage that's in there and why there
has been any dip or increase.  So we are, this Board
is on top of the situation.  And if we do absolutely
nothing after December 31st, early January, then you
take us to the pillar and give us our punishment, but
we are working.

And in this particular manner, the Chair would
like to point out that at the present time, the
Finance Committee headed by Mr. Rice is working on the
operating budget which will go into effect on 1 July.
Mr. Nakamura, who is not with us today, and his
Committee will be meeting today on capital
improvements -- tomorrow rather.  And in addition to
that on today's agenda, change my hat slightly right
now, our credit union has assured or made advances to
the Board of Water Supply coming up on the agenda of
providing a million dollars to work on this problem
upcountry to continue a continuation of water
availability.

So there are very positive elements.  And if we
can beg on your patience and understanding for the
next several months, then I think we could all be
working in a very positive manner and I would like to
be able to count on that.  And I don't hear you saying
no, so I'm assuming it's a yes.

MS. BROADWAY:  Well, my other thing is a
building process takes at least six months, right, so
why can't we install a water meter knowing that it's
not going to be even in use for six months; is that
kind of an odd request?

CHAIR CRAVALHO:  What's the purpose?  Well, I
know what the purpose is.  Sell lots, commissions,
whatever, which is okay.  That's legitimate.  But what
we are saying is perhaps for the next six months we
just have to the think about a moratorium on this
particular question.  This Board and these committees
have always acted in a positive manner when there have
been bona fide emergencies present and this Board will
continue to do so, I'm absolutely sure.  So kokua a
little bit.  Thank you.

The matter before the Board was the action on
the recommendation of the legislative committee.
While the language makes reference to giving approval
for the Director, too, the intent, this is for the
benefit of counsel, the intent of the Board is not
just to give approval but also to, correct me if I'm
wrong, that thou shall not issue meters, okay.  That's
the intent, so no one can say, well, I wasn't sure.
Thou shall not, and this is in keeping with the
Director's own statements made in the past with
respect to when the question came up on the adequacy
of the source, and Brother Starr, who was sitting here
I believe or thereabout, said, "What are you going to
do about it?  You're not going to do anything, right
about issuing meters?"  And I said, "I will not."  So
we're just carrying it out.  Thou shall not, and none
of us Board members come and say, hey, Mr. Director,
please, chicken this one.  All in favor say "Aye."

VOICES:  Aye.

CHAIR CRAVALHO:  Contrary?

(No response.)

CHAIR CRAVALHO:  Carried.  Not bad.
Mr. Craddick.

MR. CRADDICK:  The applications that we do have
with money, I guess if those people want that money
back, we will reimburse that money.

CHAIR CRAVALHO:  Just as an aside, to me it's
massively immoral to have accepted money and kept it
knowing that meters could not be given.  That's beside
the point, but to me, that's really immoral because
when it suited the Department, and I don't want to get
into that, when it suited the Department, it did make
refunds to certain places.  I'm aware of that.  Let's
have an even playing field.  Okay.  And leave well
enough alone.

There's an old expression, if one goes into the
barnyard and stirs up the manure, the only and first
result you get is a greater stink.  Communications
request for Shawn Kajiyama for extension of a meter,
refer to the Oversight Committee.  So noted.  Request
from Mr. O'Connor, same action.

MR. NOBRIGA:  So noted.

CHAIR CRAVALHO:  Communication concerning credit
union concerning funding, et cetera, referral to the
finance and capital improvements committee.  I
understand we have a representative here from
Ulupalakua Ranch who may wish to comment on that
particular item.

MR. DURSO:  Tony Durso representing Ulupalakua
Ranch.  We received notice that the Kula Community
Credit Union was going to make funds available for
improving upcountry supply, and we just wanted to
state for the record the ranch is very much
appreciative of this action and is willing also to
lend its support in any way, shape or form to this and
please recognize the Board and the Department can rely
on that cooperation and we strongly encourage you to
seek it.  We would delight in being able to
participate in improving the system.  Thank you.

CHAIR CRAVALHO:  Thank you very much.  Next
item, request of NJM Consultants on behalf of AT&T
Wireless.  The Chair would like to refer this to the
Committee of the Whole.  The matter of Mr. Jackson has
taken up and it had not been approved, however, it
stays on the agenda for next meeting.  Other business,
copy of a letter from Isaac David Hall to Timothy
Johns with respect to the lease of the water rights of
the East Maui area.  May this be referred to the Rules
Committee because the subject matters contain pretty
much an agreement which we have and which we hope to
be able to collectively work and be able to implement
after 1 July.  Mr. Craddick, update on water issues
discussed at public meetings.  It's all yours now.

MR. CRADDICK:  I don't believe there were any
public meetings that we had.

CHAIR CRAVALHO:  Mr. Craddick.

MR. CRADDICK:  Just the staff report here.

CHAIR CRAVALHO:  Yeah.  Anything you wish to
cover on it?

MR. CRADDICK:  Well, the ditch flow is very
low.  We did have 80 percent in Piiholo yesterday, but
we are trying to fill the Olinda tank, so that came
down somewhat there, but we will get that back up in a
few days.  Waikamoi is over 80 percent, not Waikamoi,
Kahakapau is over 80 percent but the Waikamoi
reservoirs are empty.  The Olinda treatment plant is
putting out .3 million, and the reason for that again
is we're pumping water out.  The demand is in the
range of still between about 7 and a half to 10
million gallons during the week, so the drought
conditions have not changed any.

CHAIR CRAVALHO:  Question, Mr. Craddick.  Are we
continuing to utilize the product of the H'Poko wells,
are we pumping from that?

MR. CRADDICK:  Yes.

CHAIR CRAVALHO:  So when we make reference to
what is withdrawn from the ditch, yeah, that does
include whatever contributions we may have made
through the H'Poko wells?

MR. CRADDICK:  Well, in the total demand, yes.

CHAIR CRAVALHO:  Yes, in the total.

MR. CRADDICK:  That's correct.

CHAIR CRAVALHO:  So if we say the total demand
is 8.1, 8.1 is not coming from the so-called EMI minus
whatever we have put in?

MR. CRADDICK:  Right.

CHAIR CRAVALHO:  So from an impact situation on
the withdrawals by the Board of Water Supply of water
that's normally, yeah, A&B, it's not 8.1, it's 8.1
minus whatever we have put in from the H'Poko wells.

MR. CRADDICK:  Plus minus whatever we're
producing at Olinda and Piiholo.

CHAIR CRAVALHO:  That's what I mean.  So the
total impact is not that great.

MR. CRADDICK:  That's right.

CHAIR CRAVALHO:  Because we are putting in and
we are getting some amount of rain, so I think that
needs to be clarified.  And we need to also express
our thanks and appreciation for the cooperation we've
had from A&B and from EMI.  I think they've done --
they've been very, very helpful in a positive manner
on these particular questions, but we need to keep in
proper perspective that it's not all from there.  Part
of it is coming from the public resources.

MR. CRADDICK:  That's correct.

MR. HASHIMOTO:  Well, I got a call from Warren
Watanabe Farm Bureau.  And at their board meeting,
they wanted to know how -- they know that water is
being pumped up to keep the reservoirs full, but
they're just wondering how much longer that can be
kept up or whether or not they have to cut back
plantings and stuff or what's the future.  For the
past for summer, I guess it's hard to predict, but
guess they wanted an inclination.

CHAIR CRAVALHO:  I think, I'm speaking
personally, it will be a cold day in hell when we have
to put restrictions on the farmers.  I think if we
exercise prudent, yeah, management, we're going to be
able to sustain.  That's my gut feeling, and under the
very, very, worst circumstances, that means absolutely
no rain at all inside, and heaven help us all, but we
haven't reached that stage yet, not by a long shot,
just for the sake of discussion and nothing else, we
have a certain amount that comes in from Olinda area,
et cetera, whether it's 200,000, half a million,
whatever, there is an amount.  We have 1.5, 1.7,
whatever it may be from H'Poko.  We have the Dowling
wells coming on board, which may be July or August.

MR. CRADDICK:  Actually today or tomorrow.

CHAIR CRAVALHO:  I'm very generous.  Today or
tomorrow.  What is the maximum we could get from
there?

MR. CRADDICK:  I think it's 1.6 million.

CHAIR CRAVALHO:  You begin to add these
numbers.  Maximum H'Poko, how much?

MR. CRADDICK:  I will say 1.5.  I notice on some
days it's 1.6.

CHAIR CRAVALHO:  1.5 plus another 1.5.  That's
three mil, plus whatever 200,000, 300,000 normally, so
we're about four mil that we can be confident of.  If
for the sake of discussion and nothing else, it's
necessary to get into an emergency situation on that
well in the Pulehu area, we might be able to get some
fast action there, fast meaning between now and the
next couple of months, which may add, yeah, another
mil, okay.

If we take that one mil from there and we put it
into that ditch system and then we can further
withdraw a larger amount on the other side, yeah, we
will be all right.  We will be close to about five
mil, five mil plus/minus.  So even if we get into a
situation of a restriction of 10 percent as we did in
the past, and I don't anticipate that happening, but
respect to continuation for the farmers.

I think we're in a very, you know, very stable
kind of a position if we don't panic, if we really
don't panic.  Now, it is the understanding of the
Chair that sometime in the past there had been some
discussion and/or negotiations or agreements bringing
some of the water from the east area, Haiku area down
here, Haiku well, am I right or wrong?

MR. CRADDICK:  From our Haiku well?

CHAIR CRAVALHO:  Yeah.

MR. CRADDICK:  When you say down here, Central
Maui?

CHAIR CRAVALHO:  Central Maui.

MR. CRADDICK:  Not that I know about.

CHAIR CRAVALHO:  Yes, you look at the
communication you got from Isaac Hall.

MR. CRADDICK:  Well, I know he alleged that.

CHAIR CRAVALHO:  I think I know Isaac fairly
well.  He wouldn't get himself out on a limb.  My
feedback tells me that discussions were held by the
Department, not just with Isaac, with a potential
contractor who had been led to understand that this
would be granted.  He's no longer on Maui.  The Chair
also understands or has been led to understand that
equipment was brought in and stored in our base yards,
so there's merit to what I'm saying and there's
credence.

MR. CRADDICK:  That's not exactly the story, but
if you want to hear it, I can tell you.

CHAIR CRAVALHO:  I've had experience of
listening to your stories.  The Chair would like to
point out they are merely stories.

MR. CRADDICK:  The contractor that has the
equipment there is the contractor for the pipeline.

CHAIR CRAVALHO:  Sir, sir, that's not what I'm
talking about.  I'm talking about the one where
discussions were held with respect to bringing water
from over there this away, and this particular
contractor is alleged to have stored some of his
equipment at the base yard, okay.  That's what I'm
talking about.

MR. CRADDICK:  Yeah, that's what I'm talking
about, too.

CHAIR CRAVALHO:  And you're saying it never
happened?

MR. CRADDICK:  You want to listen?

CHAIR CRAVALHO:  No.

MR. CRADDICK:  Okay.  I won't say anything
then.

CHAIR CRAVALHO:  That's better.  Because people
where I got my information from are contractors were
involved in it.  Just as a matter of the course, in
terms of timetable between now and June 30th, we're
working on budget, yeah, some negotiations going on,
budget to be all finished for implementation come
July, the Chair would like to point out that the Rules
Committee will start working vigorously during the
month of July.  And all the questions that have been
coming up with respect to meters, lines, assurances,
promises, real or imagined will be reviewed.  Also,
the authority for these decisions.

It is the opinion of the Chair that there may
have been practices based on rules and regs of the
Board, which independent of the Chair do not have the
force and effect of the of the law.  Because in order
for anything to have force and effect of the law, as
far as the Chair is concerned, you have to follow the
process, submit it to the Mayor and to the Board to
have it enacted into ordinance.

If it isn't done, the rules and regs are just
that, rules and regs which have no force and effect of
law.  Now, if such is the case that we need to reduce
them, we go reduce them into proper positions we can
properly enforce.  The objective is to have something
positive at hand, not go on a witch hunting situation,
not at all.  But let's go perfect what we need to do
so we move and move fast.  We have a meeting this
afternoon, Mr. Chairman?

MR. TAGORDA:  Yes.

CHAIR CRAVALHO:  One o'clock.

MR. TAGORDA:  Eleven.

CHAIR CRAVALHO:  Anything else to come before
the Board?

MS. NAGO:  It was deferred until the end of the
meeting.

CHAIR CRAVALHO:  Niehaus, that's correct.  I
should have done that the first time, too.  Yes, defer
to the end of the calendar the question, Mr. Niehaus.
There is a motion that was made by Mr. Nobriga and
seconded for granting of the request.  Mr. Niehaus.

MR. NIEHAUS:  May I speak.

CHAIR CRAVALHO:  Absolutely.

MR. NIEHAUS:  I was impressed when you said we
would like to have a level playing field a little
earlier, and that's really the way I feel.  Mr.
Tagorda came in and said he studied this extensively.
He doesn't know the facts.  He means well.  He's a
good man.  I'm not arguing that.  But just so you guys
understand, I put $38,000 into fire protection as per
the Water Department's exact specifications.

Now, $38,000 of my money that I just finished
paying off two years ago.  Then I was told by your
engineer that you hired, Doug Gomes or whatever his
name is, to put in your treatment plant that he was
never informed about us people in between, the 11
families, and he didn't take us into consideration.
And that's why we have no water pressure.

So because you didn't inform your engineer when
you built the treatment plant, guys like me who put
out the $38,000 no longer had fire protection.  I did
it exactly as you required.  Now, Mr. Gomes testified
to me to that effect.  Now, he will testify to you or
to a judge to that effect.  Secondly, Ms. Powell,
Natalie Powell, who was a member of your Board, came
up to me at a meeting -- for six years I've been
trying to do this.

I emphasize with this man who sat in the middle
of the room.  It goes on and on.  Mr. Cravalho, you've
been a light in this respect because you seem to want
to get business done.  She told me all I have to do is
build a 30,000-gallon water tank, that's what they've
allowed this guy, John Powell in Ulupalakua and
another 20 other guys to do.  She told me that in your
meeting.  So I went ahead in good faith and put a
50,000-gallon water tank in for another $20,000.  So
now I'm $60,000 into my fire protection, and Mr.
Tagorda comes in and starts talking about dwellings,
has nothing to do with what's before the Board.

It doesn't matter whether I have four dwellings
or 100 dwellings.  It's none of his business.
Secondly, I'm not having a subdivision up there.  What
I have is a farm.  I have eight acres of protea.  I
have 40,000 native trees, 40,000 that I'm growing.  I
need some help.  I'm 57 years old.  I can't do it all
myself.  That's what the house is for.  It's a tiny 20
by 30 house.  It's not some subdivision I'm putting in
there.  I'm trying to just make my life go forward.

I'm out $60,000 that I did in good faith because
of Water Department -- in writing from the Water
Department what to put in, and I have your engineer
that you hired tell me specifically that he was never
informed about us being there, and that's why we have
no water pressure.  That sounds like it's not my
fault.  It sounds like somebody came up short, maybe
your Director, I don't know who.  Somebody didn't
inform your engineer.

Why should I have to pay $60,000 for that if Ms.
Natalie Powell comes over and says just build a
30,000-gallon water tank.  I build a 50 because I
thought you might change your criteria by the time
I've gotten years into this.  Six years I've been
going through this.

I built my water tank.  I did it in good faith.
I have nothing against you guys.  You've got your
water line on my property.  It's a level playing
field.  You know, you didn't inform your engineer.
That was your shortcoming.  I'm not even uptight about
the 40,000 as long as I can go forward.  Now, if you
deny me, now I'm going to be uptight because you leave
me no way out.  You've got your water pipe on my
property.  No problem.  Who needs me anymore?

I'm telling you, treat me like a typical
citizen.  Don't treat me like I'm some kind of dirt.
I'm not going to go for it one way or another.  I
guarantee you, and I'm not threatening you guys
personally.  I'm just saying you leave me no
alternative to react, and I will react.  I did
everything asked by your board members, by your
engineering department.  I followed verbatim their
letters putting in fire protection.

What else can I do?  How can $60,000 --
everybody just says, well, forget that guy.  $60,000
is a lot of money.  I mean it took me five years to
save that kind of money.  I think you ought to at
least consider what I'm saying and think if it was
happening to you the exact same thing and you had a
pipe on your property taking three acres and you had
all this that you did in good faith, which I did in
good faith.  I never once varied from the rules.

I mean we have Ms. McKinney in '94, 94-23.  I
didn't subdivide in '93.  I consolidated.  Get the
facts straight.  I didn't make any new laws.  How come
you allowed in '93 and not for me?  Where is the level
playing field?  You say one thing.  You do another.  I
know I'm at your mercy.  Now everybody is uptight and
forget this guy, but I'm telling you, you leave me no
choice.  I've done everything in good faith.  It cost
me 60,000.  It's time for you guys to do -- all I'm
asking is a waiver for fire protection.  I have all my
stuff in there.  You've allowed plenty of people to do
it before.  It has nothing to do with how many houses
I have.  Come look at my place.  I'm building a 20 by
30 for a farm worker who can help me tend my 40,000
native trees.

It's not something where I'm renting out the
house and collecting money and riding high.  It isn't
that kind of deal.  If you want to come up, please,
all of you come.  Look at the pipe that sticks 30 feet
out of the ground that I have to live with every day,
big holes along my driveway.  It's got to be a level
playing field.  Either you do it or you don't.  Get
your pipe off there and I'll leave.  I won't ask you
for fire protection.  I won't ask you for anything.
You've got what you want.  Give me what I want.  Thank
you.

MR. TAGORDA:  Mr. Chairman, may I say something
since my name was mentioned while Mr. Niehaus was
giving his statements.

CHAIR CRAVALHO:  The Chair will be very
liberal.  Really shouldn't, but go ahead.

MR. TAGORDA:  Thank you so much, Mr. Chair.  I
have with me September 1, 1993, agreement with
subdivision agreement signed by Mr. Niehaus and wife.
In that agreement, Mr. Niehaus, I want you to listen.
There's a critical provision in that agreement.  It
says right, whereas, a subdivider has submitted an
application to consolidate and subdivide the
consolidated property to four lots.

MR. NIEHAUS:  That's not true.

MR. TAGORDA:  I'm not done yet.  The subdivider
shall comply with the requirements of the rules and
regulations of the Department in effect at that time
if and when any lot within the subdivision is further
subdivided or developed, meaning to say you're adding
some dwellings there.  That's what it is right here.

MR. NIEHAUS:  I never subdivided.

MR. TAGORDA:  It's a subdivision.  Thank you.

CHAIR CRAVALHO:  The pending motion before the
body is the granting of the request, which is the
waiver for of the fire protection requirement.  I
believe we've had adequate discussion for over a
period of hours.  Shall we then proceed with the
vote.  All in favor of adopting the committee report
and granting the waiver signify by saying "Aye."

VOICES:  Aye.

CHAIR CRAVALHO:  Opposed?

MR. TAGORDA:  Opposed, nay.

CHAIR CRAVALHO:  Inadequate number of votes, so
it's placed on the agenda for the next week.

MR. NIEHAUS:  I didn't hear that, sir.

CHAIR CRAVALHO:  Place on the agenda for the
next week because we didn't have five votes at the
present time.  Thank you.  Any other matter to come
before the Board before we adjourn?

(No response.)

CHAIR CRAVALHO:  Hearing none, the meeting is
hereby adjourned.

(The meeting adjourned at 10:20 a.m.)