BOARD OF WATER SUPPLY
COUNTY OF MAUI
PUBLIC TESTIMONY RE FLUORIDATION


RE: FLUORIDATION OF THE WATER SYSTEMS ON MOLOKAI
 
Taken at the Molokai All-Purpose Room, Kaunakakai, Molokai,
Hawaii, commencing at 6:00 p.m., on March 13, 2001.
 
TRANSCRIBED FROM VIDEOTAPE BY:
JEANNETTE W. IWADO, RPR/CSR #135
 
A T T E N D A N C E
CHAIRPERSON:                   
ORLANDO TAGORDA
 
BOARD MEMBERS:                 
CLARK HASHIMOTO
ADOLPH HELM
MICHAEL NOBRIGA
JONATHAN STARR
 
DIRECTOR:                       
DAVID CRADDICK
 
DEPUTY CORPORATION COUNSEL:    
HOWARD FUKUSHIMA
 
BOARD SECRETARY:               
FRAN NAGO
 
TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
BOARD OF WATER SUPPLY
PUBLIC HEARING
MARCH 13, 2001 6:00 P.M.
 
CHAIRMAN TAGORDA:  Board Member Mr. Mike Nobriga,
Mr. Clark Hashimoto, Mr. Adolph Helm, myself, Orlando Tagorda,
Mr. Jonathan Starr, Corp Counsel Howard Fukushima, Director
David Craddick, and our board secretary, Fran Nago.
 We, the members of the Committee of the Whole, Board
of Water Supply, County of Maui, welcome you all night.  It's a
great privilege to be with you, and we thank you for coming out
to share your opinion on fluoridation.  We understand that this
is a something on Molokai.  There are people on both sides who
also have concerns.  We are here to listen to all the
viewpoints and use them in our deliberations.  We will be
looking toward genuine, responsible, well-informed real choices
regarding this very broad issue of fluoridation and report back
to the full board.
 Testimony from the public.  The Chair will receive
oral testimony from members of the public, but first from those
who submitted testimony before the meeting started.  Testimony
will be limited to three minutes per person, three minutes per
person, or if you cannot finish in three minutes, you may have
to come back after all testimony has been finished.
 Persons wishing to testify may still sign in until
the end of the testimony portion.  Persons who have
communications or requests for action pending before the Board
will be permitted to testify when their request is taken up.
 The first person -- short recess.

(Whereupon a brief recess was taken).
 
CHAIRMAN TAGORDA:  When I was talking I was
requested that what is posted there behind the speaker, every
picture should be removed before I continue calling
testifiers.  Would you please take them down, Mr. Corp
Counsel?
 
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER:  Hey, this is freedom of speech.
 
CHAIRMAN TAGORDA:  Okay.  The meeting is called back
to order.  The first person -- I am going to call two names.
The first person to testify is going to come forward and will
use the microphone in front.  Mr. Bruhjell.  If I mispronounce
your name, please forgive me.  And followed by George Peabody.
Mr. Bruhjell.
 
MR. JADE BRUHJELL:  Well, good afternoon members of
the board.  Is this on?  Okay.  Before us tonight is the issue
of using poisonous fluorides.  It's of great importance to the
residents of Molokai and to the State of Hawaii.  This issue is
much larger than just treating tooth decay, it's more vast even
than the use of our constitutional right to choose which
medication to treat ourselves and our children.  This issue is
as large as the adds used in on one of our local newspapers to
promote and sell this poisonous industrial waste to the public.
 These expensive tax paid adds could have given a
message to our children and their parents to reduce the intake
of white sugar products and brush and floss their teeth.  For
the Department of Health and the ADA to state that fluoride is
completely safe, even as safe as mother's milk, borders on
either total ignorance or criminality of different various degrees.
 Dr. William Marcus Ph.D, president of the EPA
Scientists Union, states that fluoride is a carcinogen by any
standard that we use.  And the EPA should act immediately to
protect the public not just on the cancer data, but also on the
evidence of both fractures, arthritis, mutation of our genes,
and other ill effects.
 The EPA scientists have accused the US Department of
Health of criminal scientific fraud.  This is our EPA, tax paid
EPA scientists, of which there's 1500 of them, and they
unanimously voted against this fluoridation project.  There is
no and can never be any scientific studies to show that this
practice of fluoridating the public water supply is either safe
or effective.
 Those who wish to contaminate our water supply state
that the fluorides are only natural.  But so is lead, mercury,
arsenic, typhus, and e. coli, but who wants to eat, drink and
bathe in them?  The naturally occurring fluoride mostly found
in combination with calcium is called calcium fluoride.  The
proposed sodium fluoride is 85 to 100 times more toxic, and is
obtained by scrubbing industrial smokestacks so that poisonous
fluoride won't be released into the atmosphere.  Combined with
hydrogen, which will eat the glass on windshields on our cars.
 Because of its ability to break down organic tissue
with violence, fluoride is known in the scientific community as
the devil's element.  It's the most reactive and corrosive
element known in nature, and cannot exist alone.  It reacts
particularly with calcium, the building blocks of our bones and
teeth, and destroys it with bohements (phonetic).  The seeming
hardness obtained is only a brittleness induced as part of the
pathology and destruction of the calcium in teeth and bones,
achieving the very opposite of what is intended or claimed to
do for the teeth.
 Considering the mountains of scientific evidence --
I have one paragraph left, that's it.  Considering the
mountains of scientific evidence condemning the practice of
water fluoridation by the world's greatest scientific minds, by
the many nations and communities worldwide who have rejected
this poison to be added to public supplies, we should regard
this proposed health measure instead as a public health menace
instituted with criminal intentions.  Let us not make the
mistake of endangering the health and genetic heritage of the
people of Molokai.
 I've got one sentence left.  May we endeavor to
preserve those things that are health and longevity.  Clean,
pure water is one of those necessities.  Please decide to
reject this fluoridation program and not allow the interests of
huge corporations to bully us and let loose the devil's element
into our public water supply.
 
CHAIRMAN TAGORDA:  Thank you very much, sir, thank you.
 
MR. JADE BRUHJELL: Thank you.
 
CHAIRMAN TAKITANI:  The next person is George
Peabody.  Next will be followed by Mr. John Geng, and Roland Salmon.
 
MR. GEORGE PEABODY:  Aloha, everyone.  And we want
to welcome -- I'm glad to see all the militia of Molokai, the
whole body of Molokai residents welcoming the Board of Water
Supply to hear our concerns.  Thank you for coming.
 I want to tell you right off the front here that the
reason I'm so concerned is because of two reasons:  Number one,
there's the greatest fraud ever perpetrated on the people of
Hawaii being done to us right now by the Department of Health,
and they have admitted it in their own words in their own
report here.  They state the general consensus of their group
has been that we should quietly execute the activities
supported by this grant which focuses on the development of
major stepping stones through the promotion of serious
evaluation of strategies.
 Many stakeholders are involved with the activities
supported by the grant.  However, it is by design that we
choose to remain low key.  Our caution is based upon concern
over agitating Hawaii's vocal minority of antifluoridation
activists, which in our political environment could actually
put an end to this activity, and I say it's time to put an end
to this fraud.
 The other great concern I have is that the nature of
the fraud is like committing murder.  When you put a deadly
industrial toxin into our drinking water, little by little you
are guilty of systematically murdering, causing severe injury,
even birth defects to the people of Molokai.  God gave us
optimally fluoridated water already.  Don't try to fix it.  All
the scientific evidence that we have proves that fluoridated
water does not solve the dental tooth rot problem.
 I have a videotape here of experts in the field from
the United States, from New Zealand, from Canada detailing --
these are experts in the field of fluoridation and dentistry
that I am going to give you for evidence for you to review
later.  Please do so.
 And it will further emphasize not just the militia
of Molokai people telling you our concerns that we don't want
to be poisoned.  These are the experts telling you that they
have learned scientifically already that it is a detrimental
contaminant that you want to put in the water.  Not that you
want to put in the water, but that they want to put in the
water.  Ironically, our Department of Health.
 The other document that I've given you is a book
called, "Water, The Shocking Truth That Can Save Your Life."
This was donated to us by Patricia Bragg, a long-time health
practitioner, and I think you'll find it very interesting.
I've given one to each of you.  Please read it, I think you'll
find it very interesting.  All we ask, ladies and gentlemen, is
that you don't poison us.  Thank you very much.
 
 CHAIRMAN TAGORDA:  Thank you, Mr. Peabody.  Mr. John
Geng, you're next, followed by Roland Salmon.
 
MR. JOHN GENG:  Hello, I'm glad you came.  My name
is John Geng, I'm a resident of Molokai for twelve years now.
In ancient Roman times their engineers developed a system to
supply water to the living quarters.  Unfortunately, they used
lead pipes, and many people died or got sick from lead
poisoning.  Today we know about the effects of lead, and we
admit that they acted foolishly.  Will history mock us some day
for using fluoride in our drinking water?  Actually, fluoride
is more toxic than lead, and slightly less toxic than arsonic.
The pro-fluoride argument is that the fluoride level will be so
low it is rendered harmless.
 Years ago I witnessed the fluoride process at the
Pearl Harbor navy base.  A large container of fluoride clearly
marked as a hazardous material was transported to the water
tunnel, taken down the shaft to the water level, and simply
dumped into the water.  Now suddenly this toxic material is no
longer toxic and will find its way to our teeth.  Think about
this.  It's so magical it goes straight to our teeth, but
nothing else is affected.
 There are many well respected members of the science
and medical fields that have spoken out against the use of
fluoride.  One of them is Dr. Flannigan of the American Medical
Association.  He was the Assistant Director of Environmental
Health.  Quote, "The AMA is not prepared to state that no harm
will be done to any person by water fluoridation."  Another is
Dr. Marcus, senior toxicologist of the EPA, "The EPA should act
immediately to protect the public, not just on the cancer data,
but on the evidence of bone fractures, arthritis, and other
effects."
 It is apparent that the government will some day
have to concede from the sponsorship of the biggest fraud ever
committed on the public.  Why should the government be
tampering with our water?  What is next, will they attempt to
bleed a cure-all gas into the atmosphere?  You pro-fluoride
people are determined to shove this stuff down our throat.
This is not an epidemic.  The tooth decay problem is
preventable, and you should concern yourselves with the causes,
not the effects.
 In closing, I have a challenge to the pro-fluoride
people.  One, produce proof of a long-term scientific study on
fluoridation of public water.  Two, show demonstration of the
food and drug administration's blessing of this product,
fluoride.  And three, give your personal guarantee that no harm
will come to any individual using fluoride.  And in closing, if
anyone is interested, I have a letter, a signed letter, a copy
of a letter from a member of the AMA that says that they cannot
guarantee that no harm will come to any person using water
fluoridation.  Thank you very much.
 
CHAIRMAN TAGORDA:  Thank you very much, thank you

(Applause).
 
CHAIRMAN TAGORDA:  Roland Salmon, followed by
Mr. Bruce Anderson.
 
MR. ROLAND SALMON:  I can only add to what was said
here before.  I'm personally today against fluoridation, it's a
poison, we know about it.  Also, it's an infringement on our
freedom.  We should have a choice.  In Molokai we are very
fortunate to have sweet water, everybody knows that.  And if we
put chemicals in it we are going to get more of the same of
what we have already, that is Altzheimer's disease, cancer,
sugar problem, and so on.  There are more birth defects per
capita on West Molokai and Lanai than anyplace else in the 52
states.  That's very sad.
 So please don't let fluoride happen.  Just keep our
sweet water.  If a farmer lets his pig drink the water, his
pigs will not produce offsprings.  To me, that's a crime right
there.  They need that money.  As you know, we're suffering
already.  So please, don't let fluoride come in, it's a
poison.  Thank you.  (Applause).
 
CHAIRMAN TAGORDA:  Thank you very much.  Mr. Bruce
Anderson, followed by Harold Edwards.
 
DR. BRUCE ANDERSON:  Good evening, Chair Tagorda,
members of the committee.  I have some written testimony and I
won't read that.  I just wanted to say a few things in support
of the Molokai Dental Health Coalition which is, as I
understand it, supporting this effort, and we have committed
that if the community wants fluoridation, we will support
that.
 Molokai does have a serious dental health problem,
despite what you're hearing.  We have twice the rate of tooth
decay in Hawaii that they have across the rest of the country,
and Molokai has one of the worst rates in all of Hawaii.  There
is a serious problem here on Molokai, and I applaud the
physicians and others here on the island who are supporting
fluoridation as a way to deal with that issue.  It's not a
panacea to the problems; good hygiene and other things are
important.  But there's no single thing that you can do on this
island that would be more effective than adding fluoride to the
water system.
 Fluoride isn't poison.  I can go on and tell you
what it isn't.  Fluoride is a trace mineral that's found in the
water you're drinking right now here on Molokai.  And what
we're talking about when we talk about fluoridating water
supplies is adjusting the level of this trace mineral to a
level that provides optimum benefits without causing any harm.
It's been studied for 50 years in tens of thousands of
communities across the country.  It is supported by the
American Medical Association, the Centers for Disease Control.
Even the EPA has reviewed the information and found no adverse
health affects associated with the levels of fluoride that we
expect to find in water.
 You have a great experience here on Molokai
already.  You have taken some leadership on this island, and I
applaud that.  In Kolo town, where the water system was
fluoridated back from 1961 to about 1972, the rates of dental
tooth decay dropped 60 percent here on this island.  This is a
study we site across the state.  When they stopped fluoridating
when Del Monte went out of business, the rates increased 95
percent.  This is the same community.  It works.  It will make
a huge difference in the dental health of the community.
 What I pledge to you is if you decide to go ahead
with this proposal -- and I strongly support this proposal, I
have no reservations about it, nor does any other health
professional that I know -- if you go ahead with this proposal
we will reimburse the Maui Water Department and other private
water providers for the cost of installation of the systems and
any other infrastructure cost, and work with them on this.  But
I want to make sure that you understand it's your choice.  We
support it.
 We will answer information that you might need.  You
do have a lot of information before you, and I don't want to
bury you with that.  I think there is an information packet
that I would encourage you to read at your leisure.  But thank
you for the opportunity to testify, I appreciate it.  And we
have people here tonight who can answer questions.  I'm not
going to have them come up and testify, I think you will more
appropriately hear from the community.  Thank you.
 
CHAIRMAN TAGORDA:  Thank you.  Mr. Harold Edwards,
followed by Olga Waterhouse.  Please state your name for the
record.
 
MR. HAROLD EDWARDS:  Good evening Chair, members of
the Board of Water Supply.  Welcome to Molokai.  My name is
Harold Edwards, I'm vice-president for Molokai Ranch.  Molokai
Ranch is the operator of three community water systems on
Molokai, and supports the efforts of the Molokai Dental Health
Coalition to bring fluoride to Molokai's children through its
addition to various drinking water systems on Molokai.  We look
forward to working with the Department of Health to see this
important health issue addressed.
 While the current health department preliminary
engineering report seems to have inadvertently overlooked the
community of Kualapu'u, we would hope to work with the
Department of Health to make sure that as much of Molokai's
population could be included as possible.  We urge your support
for this important program and look forward to doing our part
to bring this important community need to the people of
Molokai.  In short, you're the big dog in this area.  If you
guys go with it, I think we can follow.  But we wouldn't be
able to do it without you folks making the decision to go
forward.  Thank you.
 
CHAIRMAN TAGORDA:  Thank you very much.  Olga
Waterhouse, followed by Dr. Gerald Anderson.  Mrs. Olga
Waterhouse.  George Peabody, are you going to speak for her?
 
MR. GEORGE PEABODY:  Good evening.  Olga Waterhouse
from Honolulu asked me to read part of her testimony for her.
She says that she has some physical ailments that I won't go
into detail, several pages of it, and that fluoridation of
water would exacerbate her diseases.  And she says that once
you put the fluoride in the water it gets into the body and you
can't take it out.  If the state later finds that it was a
mistake, the people have already got it, and will never be able
to have clear water again.  An expert she cited named A.Z
Blasie said that, "The salinity of fluoridating entire water
supplies is a mass medication maneuver when only half or one
percent is imbibed.  You don't drink all the water, most of it
goes for flushing toilets and washing dishes and cars, because
a wide variation of water is consumed daily by different
individuals.  Such a procedure instigated by one of our federal
agencies is totally unAmerican."
 Dr. George A. Slineman of Oral Hygiene Magazine
said, "Suppose this diluted rat poison gradually ruins my
kidneys and thus sends me to my grave.  Will it be any comfort
to me if my dental association says, 'He died with perfect
teeth'? As an American, I crave to neither be treated as a
guinea pig or a rat."
 Dr. Edwin G. Langrock said, "I do not wish the
government to tell me what I should eat or drink.  If the
person next door wishes to have her children have chlorine, let
her put the chlorine in their water, but don't make me drink it
because she wishes her children to have it."
 Dr. L.A. Ellison's message, this one is the one that
goes right to my heart as a Libertarian, "The real issue is the
right of the individual to determine what shall be done to and
with his body dead or alive, as long as the exercise of that
right does not impinge upon the equal right of his fellows."
 Put don't fluoride in the water; don't mass medicate
us.  There are many, many options.  Go to your dentist and get
all the fluoride you want.
 The other thing she and I talked about was we tried
to reach with Dr. Anderson and his staff to have an open public
debate, and they always avoid us.  So I'm making that challenge
right here and now, debate us or back off.
 
CHAIRMAN TAGORDA:  Thank you, sir.  Come forward,
sir.  Followed by Nancy Wescott.
 
DR. GERALD ANDERSON:  Gentlemen, welcome to Molokai
and being engulfed with quite a bit of medical quackery
tonight.  Most of you who know me know me as the owner of the
Dispatch, the major paper on island.  What I just passed out to
you was an editorial that I wrote rather reluctantly, but I got
sick and tired of all the lies and the misinformation being
passed out by the anti-fluoride activists.  Now you can read
what I say in the editorial there.
 But I'd like to point out to you a couple of
things.  I was introduced as doctor.  The reason I'm introduced
as doctor, I have a Ph.D.  I spent ten years in the academic
environment, plus more than 20 years in the engineering field.
I'm very familiar with the peer review process, and I'm sure
most of you know what this is.  When you do studies to get them
published in a legitimate major publication, you go through the
peer review process.  As far as I know, the peer review
journals haven't come up with any of this stuff you've heard
about fluoride causing cancer, fluoride causing brittle bones,
fluoride staying in your system.  It just is not there.
 You can always find an expert that will say anything
you want.  A lot of experts have PhD's, so-called experts have
PhD's.  But you know you can always find someone to say
something.  These so-called experts, I just wonder, I'm willing
to bet they haven't published anything on the subject in peer
review journals.  And that's really what you've got to go by,
what do the experts say in the peer review journals, not what
some wackos with PhD's by their names happen to say.
 So I urge you to just consider the 50 years and
many, many communities throughout the United States that have
fluoridation.  It's successful, it reduces tooth decay, there's
no correlation with major problems.  One of the anti-fluoride
people said, "Prove to me that fluoride will never hurt any
individual."  You can't prove that.  You could never prove
that.  You know that bottle of soda right there, no one can
prove that that will not cause cancer in an individual.  You
can't prove a negative.  So with that, I just ask you to
support the fluoridation effort, and please ignore the medical
quackery that you are going to hear tonight.  Thank you.

CHAIRMAN TAGORDA:  Nancy Wescott, followed by Claire Iveson.
 
MS. NANCY WESCOTT:  Good evening.  My name is Nancy
Wescott.  I have been a dental hygienist on Molokai for more
than 25 years, and see our serious tooth decay problems every
day.  Adjusting the fluoride level in our water supply is a
very good opportunity for us and would help every child and
adult in this community to have better teeth.  I would like to
see it available to my children and grandchildren and to
everyone.  Naturally fluoridated water has existed since before
man walked the earth.  Adjusting water fluoridation has been
done for over 50 years in the United States.  We know that at
one part per million it makes tooth enamel less likely to
decay, and it helps stop decay activity.  That's all it does.
 It has been exhaustively tested for medical side
effects.  It has been proven thousands of times to be safe and
thousands of times to reduce decay.  Most of the cities on the
mainland with populations of over one hundred thousand are now
fluoridated, including this list of 40 of the largest cities in
the United States.  They're all fluoridated.  It is sad that
Honolulu is not one of them.  Many major medical research
facilities, including the Mayo Clinic, Stanford University
Hospital and Harvard Medical Center are in fluoridated
communities.  Millions of Americans are drinking and using
fluoridated water every day with no ill effects except better
teeth.  I hope that the people of Molokai too can have access
to the best advances in dental health care.  I hope that you
will agree to implement this program.  It is a wonderful
opportunity.  Thank you.
 
CHAIRMAN TAGORDA:  Thank you very much.  (Applause).
Claire Iveson, followed by Ruth Yap.
 
MS. CLAIRE IVESON:  I'm going to read my testimony.
My name is Iveson, I live at 15 Kawela Way, and have been a
resident of Molokai for 23 years.  For most of that time I have
been director of the Molokai Family Support Center, which has
brought me into contact with numerous toddlers, children, and
adults with serious dental problems.  I do not know which of
these problems would have been avoided if Molokai had
fluoridated drinking water.  However, I will use myself as an
example of the likely effects of fluoridation.
 I spent my childhood in New York City and Pasadena
California, neither of which were fluoridated.  I had dental
exams and cleaning twice a year, brushed my teeth regularly,
and still had many cavities in first my baby teeth and then my
adult teeth.  After moving to Washington, D.C., and later to
San Francisco, both of which were fluoridated, I developed very
few new cavities except those that were next to old fillings.
 Truthfully, I also haven't had many cavities in all
my years on Molokai.  However, I now have six crowns on teeth
that cracked or crumbled from the multiple fillings, most of
which were put in over 40 years ago when I was a child living
in non-fluoridated areas.  I personally believe that
fluoridated water would have reduced these childhood cavities.
Obviously, I cannot prove that.  Also, in the 16 adult years
that I lived with fluoridation I consistently drank large
quantities of water without any detectable side effects.
 From my point of view, fluoridation on Molokai makes
sense.  There will be significant advantages for children, I
believe, and I do not believe there there will be disadvantages
for the adults.  Thank you very much.  I would also like to say
though that usually I'm on the other side of the table.  Most
issues I'm one of those activists that some people complain
about.  This I had an opinion before it became such a hot
issue.  But I still feel, based on all of that, that
fluoridation would be advantageous for Molokai.  Thank you.
 
CHAIRMAN TAGORDA:  Thank you very much.  Next
testifier is Ruth Yap, followed by Jim Callahan.

MS. RUTH YAP:  Good evening.  My name is Ruth Yap, I
have been a resident of Molokai since June 1965 and a resident
of Hawaii since I was born.  I'd like to tell you that I was a
Public Health Nurse here for all those many years that I lived
on Molokai, and in 1975 we went through the throws of getting
sufficient dental care for the residents of Molokai.  We were
successful in doing that, but we find now that the number of
cavities have increased despite the fact that we have adequate
dental care.  And if the children's teeth and even the adults'
teeth were strengthened by the use of fluorides in their daily
lives, especially through drinking water, that it would be
better for them, so they will not have the residual cavities
that they now have.  Thank you very much.
 
CHAIRMAN TAGORDA:  Thank you very much.  Jim
Callahan, followed by Steve Chaikin.
 
MR. JAMES CALLAHAN:  Hi.  Thanks, Board of Water
Supply, for letting me speak.  I'm Jim Callahan, I have been on
Molokai since 1976.  I've worked as a Public Health Nurse here
for 18 and half years with Mrs. Yap.  I'd like to read my
testimony.
 Please accept this testimony in favor of
fluoridation of the Molokai water systems.  Although I will not
benefit from this public health measure at my home, I work full
time in Kaunakakai, where I will drink fluoridated water, and I
am very glad about that.  If I may explain.  I came to Molokai
25 years ago as a young registered nurse, and one of my first
jobs at the Health Department was to talk to the mothers and
children about their well-child clinics and how they took care
of their children and their dental care.  And I always talk to
them about if they were getting the fluoride tablets that the
doctor would prescribe them and the drug store would provide
them.  And I also talked to them about sugar liquids in the
bottle and brushing the teeth or wiping the teeth.  But to tell
you the truth, I still had the impression that a lot of those
children went on to get a lot of cavities.
 A lot of kids that came to me through the clinic
back in the late seventies and through the eighties had teeth
that were only like half there, or they were black and they
were just like missing.  You know, it was pretty bad.  So I
really think that the teeth on the children here need
improving, and if the teeth are especially soft that's no
good.  They will quickly decay, causing pain, expense, and even
malnutrition.  I say that we should implement fluoridation to
give our keiki here a chance to have some nice hard teeth,
resisting decay against a modern diet.  It's often high in
sugary foods, yeah, let's face it.  I believe fluoridation is
safe and effective.
 Also, I personally suffer from severe dental decay,
and it is my most serious health problem.  I've tried using
high fluoride toothpaste and going to the dentist, as well as a
lot of our measures to control this, but it's not working very
well.  And I wonder if my teeth would be harder and better if I
would have had fluoride when I was younger.  And I can relate
to people with a lot of dental problems, and believe me, it's
no fun.  That's my testimony in support of fluoridation.
 
CHAIRMAN TAGORDA:  Thank you, thank you very much.
Steve Chaikin, followed by Leimana Naki.  Please forgive me if
I mispronounce your name, sir.
 
MR. STEVE CHAIKIN:  Hello.  My name is Steve
Chaikin, and I'd like to thank you for coming to Molokai and
hearing our concerns, and especially for allowing me the
opportunity to express my views and the reasons why I oppose
putting sodium fluoride in the water system.
 As you are probably aware, there's a mountain of
evidence on both sides clearly showing why each side is
correct.  For me, I have to back off and just use my gut
feeling, my common sense, take a look at the benefits, the
potential risks and the alternatives that are available.
 You know, in this country we have a big problem, and
it's not cavities, it's cancer.  Over 550,000 people this year
will die in this country alone.  That's over one person every
minute.  In this room one in four of us will get diagnosed with
cancer during our lifetime, and one in three in this room are
going to die from cancer.  And if you ask these people why
they're dying they'll tell you they don't know.  If you ask the
doctors they'll tell you they don't know how they got cancer.
We spend 1.6 billion dollars year after year, and we still
don't know.
 I was reading through the literature, and I read the
material safety data sheet for sodium fluoride, and it said,
"This product contains a detectable amount of a chemical known
to the State of California to cause cancer."  For me, that's
enough.  I don't need to have all these fancy studies, and I
don't know if the risk is high or the risk is low.  All I know
is there is a risk, another straw on the camel's back.  We have
to be so careful about what we eat and what we drink and the
chemicals that we come in contact with, because it's killing us.
 What we do know is many native populations around
the world never got cancer.  It's something that we're doing
that's causing this to happen.  I could understand taking this
measure if there was a majority of the population that was
suffering from some kind of a medical condition that was
life-threatening, but that's not the case.  We're talking about
cavities to a relatively small portion of the population.
 My son is eight years old.  We gave him fluoride
drops when he was little, and he brushes his teeth one time a
day -- he says two -- and he drinks a modest amount of sweet
stuff, and he has no cavities.  So I think there's hope that we
can, through just improving the dental hygiene and the eating
habits of our children, that we can improve the problem without
putting sodium fluoride in the water.
 And I think it's inappropriate for us to put sodium
fluoride, because it gives them a sense of false security.  And
the kids, they think well, we've got sodium fluoride, we can
take a little bit more sugar and brush our teeth a little less
often.
 
CHAIRMAN TAGORDA:  Time is up, sir.
 
MR. STEVE CHAIKIN:  Okay.  Well, I just hope this
Board, you know, continues to offer us the very purest and
cleanest water that you possibly can, free of chemicals,
especially chemicals that are labeled as toxic by the
manufacturer.  Thank you.  (Applause).
 
CHAIRMAN TAGORDA:  Thank you.  Leimana Naki.
 
MS. LEIMANA NAKI:  Aloha, thank you for coming.  My
question was like --
 
CHAIRMAN TAGORDA:  State your name for the record.
 
MS. LEIMANA NAKI:  Leimana Naki.  Leimana Naki.  If
I went to your house or to your home and I was offered water,
or offered a soda or a beverage, and then there was nothing to
offer but water, and if there was fluoride in it I would drink
it because I'm thirsty.  But the same for you, if you drink my
water when you come to my home where there's no fluoride.
There's no choice.  Do you have a choice?  Yes, I can get up
and say yes, I'm very thirsty but I don't want to drink that
water.  I see people making a decision and making choices
here.
 Secondly, if you add fluoride to the water what will
be the next additive or the next solution?  Where does it say
stop?  Where does it stop?  You are going to start this, then
bring in another thing and you bring another thing?  Where is
it going to stop with all the things that you want to put in
the water?
 I have a question for Mr. Anderson.  He said that
when the pineapple was here and the water thing, that the
dental thing was very great at that time.  I'd like to see that
report, I'd like to read that report, you know.  And if that
was the situation, that it was better before, then what is the
pilikia today, what's the problem, you know?
 And last but not least and overall, if you have
fluoride in the water will it seep into our aquifer?  Will it
damage our opai, our limu, our fishes?  Will it seep from the
aquifer into our ocean?  If you say, both sides say the affect
on men.  Will it have any affect on our coastline or what we
eat?  I'm not a doctor here but I'm a practitioner, yeah, and
if you conceded to come to the Hawaiian community, this is a
community, we have got the Kamakaole people.  Have you taken
this and talked to the Hawaiian people, those that have been
here before you came?  Have you ever considered that?  Thank you.
 
CHAIRMAN TAGORDA:  Thank you very much.  Mr. DeGray
Vanderbilt, followed by Judy Lokelani Caparida.
 
MR. DEGRAY VANDERBILT:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman,
members of the Board of Water Supply.  I want to apologize to
Howard.  Will you accept my apology Howard, please?  Thank
you.  And I apologize to the board and to the audience.  But
Molokai is a little different than Maui, and when the State
Water Board was here there was signs all over the place.  This
place was packed.  The Water Board wasn't intimidated; the
public wasn't intimidated.  No matter which side you were on,
it was just the public expressing themselves.  And I think
that's what discouraged the public from getting involved in
government, because government is no fun any more, it's
sterile.  We like to have fun on Molokai.  I'm sorry, Howard,
really I am.  I am not just saying that, you know.
 But anyway, I was going to speak on the fluoride
issue, but one of the nurses at the hospital grabbed me and
said, "You'd better not say anything."  And she's pretty
tough.  So I'm not going to say anything except welcome to
Molokai and listen to the people.  Aloha.  Thank you.
 
CHAIRMAN TAGORDA:  Thank you very much,
Mr. Vanderbilt.  Judy Lokelani Caparida, followed by Cappy
Caparida.
 
MS. JUDY CAPARIDA:  Aloha.  My name is Judy Lokelani
Caparida, and I'm here on behalf of 2000 and more of the people
that I got these signatures.  (Applause).
 You know, it's really, really disgusting how blessed
we are on Molokai, we are so blessed.  If there is something
wrong it comes from the home, mothers, dads, take care of the
children.  It's not something to come to the legislature and
talk about, it comes from your home.  And I know this man over
here, he get pretty nerve to say down in Honolulu they say, you
know what, just put it in the water.  If you went listen to me
last year then you wouldn't be fighting over here this year.
 Let me tell you something.  There is a right that
everybody has, the right that we are not forced to take
anything that we don't want to.  We pay for clean water.  I
didn't pay for put fluoride in the water.  Look at me, I am not
an enamel.  The fluoride is for the teeth.  I am not made of
enamel.  I have blood, flesh, just like all of you.  There is a
purpose God created us for, for one thing, to be healthy so we
can praise him, not make us sick.
 One thing I need to share with you folks.  Molokai
has one pharmacy, Molokai have four or five dentists, we have
nurses and doctors.  They're supposed to advocate for the best
thing of our life.  They are the doctors, they're supposed to
be helping us not giving us advice to take something that
they're not sure of.  They're not sure of this.  I could tell
you something, I used to brush my -- I have teeth that -- you
know what, it won't help because I got them store made, okay.
The thing is that I used to brush my tongue with Crest and I
used to get a lot of sores in my mouth.  You know when this
thing came out I didn't know what was the cure for me.  I
stopped taking that fluoride Crest and it's never come back
again.
 Who knows my health?  Who knows your health?  Who
knows?  Not these guys.  A lot of times they give you wrong
medicine.  A lot of times I went to trauma with my own family
because they was given wrong medicine.  Can I trust them?  No
way.  Not today.  Today you conk your head and they put on all
the bells, just like Hitler.  That's how Hitler killed the
millions of Jews, millions of people, was from fluoride,
because you can't smell it, you can't taste it.  Well, we ain't
one of those people, we are very, very unique people because we
live on Molokai.
 I'm here because I walked the streets to pick up all
those signatures, because that's what you call caring and
loving.  That you know once you put something in there that was
never there from the beginning?  Why should we, why should you
folks tell me that?  Tell me.
 
CHAIRMAN TAGORDA:  Time is up, sorry.
 
MR. CAPPY CAPARIDA:  I think my wife can do more
talking for me, and I'll give my two minutes to my wife.
 
CHAIRMAN TAGORDA:  That will be fine, thank you.  Go
ahead, ma'am.
 
MS. CAPARIDA:  My husband know what I'm talking
about because I'm really thankful that he bears it with me.
Going out, not getting paid, not getting paid one penny but
because you love, love is free.  11 million dollars is coming
into the Department of Health.  They no more enough problems
with Molokai High School.  The high school needs the help
there.  There is not enough help there.  Give the teachers the
money, not give it for this.  This we ain't going to fight,
roll over, play dead.  No way, not my drinking water, not your
drinking water.  They can bottle it, they can get somebody to
do it, bottle it and go drink it, but not us.
 In closing, I have my -- Sis, please bring my thing
up here.  You see, it's not because we don't like fluoride.  My
children brush their teeth.  Before when my children was little
they said put it all on the toothpaste.  Now they say just a
little pea.  That's what they say, just a little pea because
the thing is no good.  My grandaughter said, "I went to the
dentist, the dentist said for me don't swallow, but why is the
dentist telling me now I can drink 'em through the water?" You
think the kid is stupid?
 There are ten of us right here, there's fluoride
pills, there's toothpaste, there's liquid form.  You can go to
your dentist and have it fixed.  I mean that's the way it goes,
and you can bottle it if you want.  But this is what is so easy
to do.  You can sign up, you can sign up all you like, but can
you really guarantee?  Really, can you guarantee?  Can you
guarantee that fluoridation of water will not -- will be
absolutely safe for everyone?  For everyone?  No more.
 My daughter lives in Santa Barbara.  She has a baby
she was feeding breast.  After the baby got out of breast she
gave her water.  And then she wondered how come she boiled the
water and the bottom of her kettle has crystals.  She threw 'em
away again because she did not understand anything about
fluoride.  She fill 'em up and boil 'em up again.  Crystals.
She called up her husband's working place.  She said,
"Something is wrong with our water."  And the baby started
having asthma.  But thank you, Jesus, you know what happened?
They put that water, now big bottles of water for cooking and
for drinking.
 Are we going to do that?  Should we do that when we
get our water free, I mean pure water?  No way.  And anyway,
will they say it's absolutely safe for everyone?  No.  I mean
pure water?  No way.  And anyway, if they say it's absolutely
safe for everyone?  No.  Nobody, no doctor, no dentist, no city
council, no agency, no committee, no government will risk being
responsible for any tragic effects.  So you know what DOH?  Do
me a favor and give the money to the teachers, they need 'em.
Thank you.  (Applause).
 
CHAIRMAN TAGORDA:  Thank you very much.  Thank you.
Dr. Dana Takashima, follow by Shelsea Van Ornum.
 
DR. DANA TAKASHIMA:  Good evening.  It's hard to
follow her, but I'm going to try.  My name is Dana Takashima,
and I'm a dentist that lives here and practices here.  I'm here
to strongly support this fluoridation program to help the
dental health of this community.  And I have been here 25 years
practicing, okay.  I'm the person that sees all this dental
decay and what it can do to peoples' teeth.  If you could see a
person swelling up so badly from a dental abscess where his
eyes shut, or a five year old kid crying because all of his
teeth is all decayed, and crying with pain, you will know how
serious dental decay is.
 To me, it seems like an endless battle to help
people with this kind of problem.  And I see prevention as the
key to this, and fluoridation will be a tremendous asset to
reduce dental decay.  I often ask myself why Hawaii doesn't
have fluoridation when most of the states in the United States
do, and this is why we have the highest rate of dental decay in
the nation.  And I often ask why aren't we doing anything,
okay.  Now, in my 25 years here this is the first time the
fluoridation issue has come up, and I see this as a golden
opportunity to help Molokai's dental health.
 Now, I came here in 1976 because there was a dental
care crisis.  There was one office treating the whole island of
Molokai.  Now we are fortunate to have four offices with three
full-time dentists and one part-time.  I've seen a whole
generation of kids in my 25 years here, and now these kids are
bringing their kids to see me.  And even though the dental care
is good now, there's still a big dental decay problem, okay.
Now, I can't work forever, and in another ten years I'm going
to start thinking of retiring.  And we don't know what the
dental situation is going to be here.  Like right now we're
fortunate to have this many dentists treating the island
population, but ten years from now who knows how many dentists
will be here.
 So doesn't it make sense to start a project like
fluoridation now so that ten years from now in the future the
benefits of the reduced dental decay will be present so we
don't have to have another dental crisis in Molokai any more?
Okay, now I have been here 25 years.  I think most people know
who I am and can trust my judgment.  So all I can say, my
professional opinion, fluoridation is safe and effective, and
will help this community tremendously in the future.
(Applause).
 
CHAIRMAN TAGORDA:  Thank you, Doctor, thank you.
Sandra Grenardo, followed by Shelsea Van Ornum.  Forgive me if
I mispronounce your last name, Van Ornum.
 
MS. SHELSEA VAN ORNUM: I'm Shelsea Van Ornum and I'm
just a resident here on Molokai, and I am going to speak about
something that hasn't been spoken yet.  The Molokai Dental
Health Coalition informs us that fluoride is only natural
because it comes from the earth's soil.  Now, I don't know how
many dentists or even citizens understand this one particular
fact that I'm going to bring out.  This mineral fluoride is
found in the soil.  It is food for the plant but not for man.
Because our body uses organic minerals, the inorganic minerals,
such as fluoride, that's one of the many minerals that we know
of, is of no use to the human body.
 The only way our body can benefit from this mineral
is when a plant changes it by means of photosynthesis into an
organic matter, and we eat the plant in its wholesome state,
unaltered, unrefined, unprocessed.
 The soil material fluoride is not food for man, but
food for plants.  We are not soil eaters, we are plant eaters
and fruit eaters.  The human organism can only use organic
minerals.  Fluoride as well as any inorganic minerals do not
work in isolation, okay, they must be consumed in their natural
unfragmented and organic state to be of any use to the body.
The best mineral supplements are those naturally occurring in
mineral rich food in their unprocessed state, such as fresh
fruits, vegetables, nuts, seeds, sprouts and so forth.
 If the body do not rid itself of this inorganic
fluoride in the water it will deposit within the body's
tissue.  Because of their heavy weight they're difficult to
eliminate and may cause discomfort as they leave the body.  All
inorganic mineral deposits lead to kidney and gallstone
formation, hardening of the arteries, arthritis, heart trouble,
ossification of the brain, and other serious disease.  The
body's cells can use only pure water.  They reject all
inorganic materials consumed.
  Sea water is our richest mineral water, yet it is
poisonous.  One, we should be concerned only with those
minerals that are directly usable by the human organism and
that are vital to the healthy functioning of the body.  Two,
there is a difference in the inorganic form of the mineral, as
it occurs in the soil inorganic.
 So let me just read one more thing.  I think you got
the message.  Our body can only use organic.  If I can just
have a few seconds on tooth decay that hasn't been brought up.
Tooth decay does not occur because the calcium and phosphorous
minerals are not in balance, okay.  Nutritionists found that
tooth decay happens when the body is acidoses, when the calcium
level is low, okay.  People that eat healthy diets do not get
cavities.
 
CHAIRMAN TAGORDA:  Thank you very much.  We will
have a five minute recess.  We will reconvene at 7:05.
 
(Whereupon a brief recess was had).
 
(Some oral testimony not recorded on audio tape).
 
MS. JANICE KALANIHUIA:  I'm here tonight as a
private citizen, though.  I wanted to go right home after work
badly, but I feel strongly enough about this issue that I
decided to stay in town and testify.  I didn't start
researching this issue in the last six months, I researched it
20 years ago when I was pregnant and someone handed me fluoride
and said, "Take this, your kid's teeth will be fabulous."  I
was totally convinced then, as I am now, that it is very safe
and effective.  It is a very safe and effective method of
preventing tooth decay.  So I am strongly supporting the
initiative to adjust the level of fluoride in our water.
 I would also like you to take note of who the most
vocal members of the Molokai Dental Coalition are, they are
doctors, nurses, midwives, dentists and dental hygienists, all
of whom have spent their entire careers on Molokai caring for
this population.  They are very smart people, they are not
easily fooled.  They have no reason to support this other than
a sincere desire to keep this community healthy.  Thank you.
(Applause).
 
CHAIRMAN TAGORDA:  Thank you very much.  The next
testifier is Moaga Manu, followed by JoAnn Johansen.
 
MS. MOAGA MANU:  Good evening.  Well, I think it's
the main issue on this problem over here is the water, not the
dentists, not the teeth.  You know, we're talking about the
water for drinking to the stomach, not the teeth.  For what is
the sense you save your teeth and then the stomach is huli
upside down?  It no make sense.
 Talking about the teeth.  I used to go dentist
before, way before the dentist over here, they stay over here
by the drug store.  I went before, two or three times I went to
him.  He told me, "I can save your tooth."  I say, "No."  So
the first time he fill 'em up with the thing.  If the fluorides
was good they fix my teeth with put fluorides inside, put the
cap.  And he tell me, "Rinse your mouth, don't swallow, throw
'em out."  They know the truth, the goddamn thing is poison.
That's why they tell you don't swallow, spit 'em out.  And they
hide all the truth.
 You know why they hide the truth?  Because money.
Money is evil.  The Bible say money is the root of evil
things.  That's why they go for, money.  They no care about
you.  You sick, you sick.  Give the fluoride in the water,
going make you sick and they happy.  They said, "Oh, it's a
cold, take antibiotic.  Go over there.  Oh, take a strong
one."  But they bullshit.  It's from the fluoride in the
water.  No, that's the reason we talking about.
 We not talking about the teeth, we talking about the
water we drinking inside, inside our health.  That's why I not
talk too much.  But I know for sure myself, the nurse and the
dentist if no more us for fix our teeth, they no more money,
they no more paycheck.  That's all they get.  I talked to them
for months.  When they fix our teeth.  It's about two times
they fix.  They say, "Come tomorrow again, next week again" and
got to pay for the teeth.
 Some people they no more medical plan.  You got to
pay from your own pocket.  That's why they fight like hell for
the fluoride, but they fight on the wrong way.  They fight for
the teeth, they no fight for the health inside the people.  If
the fluoride was good for people they would long time they say
something is good for the health.  Now all of a sudden the
teeth, it's good for the teeth.  Never improve the teeth too.
From now on still get decay in the mouth, in the teeth.  Never
prove nothing.  And they said it will be good.  Thank you.
Mahalo.
 
CHAIRMAN TAGORDA:  Thank you.  Jo Ann Johansen,
followed by Dr. Dr. Lorrin Pang.
 
MS. JO ANN JOHANSEN:  Good evening, members of the
committee.  My name is Jo Ann Johansen, and I'm a certified
nurse midwife.  I first moved to Molokai in 1987.  And I was
lucky to enough to grow up with fluoridated water, so I had
never seen kids with metal teeth before and I was pretty
shocked at what I saw here.
 I speak in favor of fluoridation from two different
points of view.  The first point is from my training as a
scientist.  And Mr. Anderson addressed this already when he
talked about medical quackery.  I have two masters degrees, one
in science and one in public health.  Scientists are trained to
look critically at information to see if there's good reason to
believe it or not.  So I was trained to look at studies and
claims to see if they were backed up by good science or by junk
science.
 I've tried to look at as many of the fluoridation
studies as I can since this issue has come up.  I haven't
looked at them all because there are about 4,000.  But I see a
lot of junk science out there that says that fluoride is bad,
and I see a lot of good, solid science that says that fluoride
is safe and effective.
Here is an example of junk science.  If somebody has
a theory that going to the post office causes cancer, they have
a right to have that theory, but are you going to stop picking
your mail up?  I doubt it.  You are going to ask what are the
qualifications of the person that did this study, how many
cases did they look at, and did they consider and control for
other causes before deciding that going to the post office
causes cancer.
 The second point that I speak from is my position as
a midwife.  I've delivered hundreds of babies on Molokai, and I
hate to see them suffer with rotten teeth when that's so easily
preventable.  I don't see them here to speak up for
themselves.  The ones who would benefit most from fluoride in
our water don't get to speak up in hearings, and they don't get
to fill out surveys.  Opponents of fluoridation say that decay
can be prevented by proper care and that therefore it's not
necessary to fluoridate our water.  In a perfect world that
would be true, but we don't live in a perfect world.  We can
stop fluoridating water when we all eat a perfect diet and we
take perfect care of our teeth and our children's teeth.  Until
then, we need fluoride in our water.
 Some people in the community here tonight have made
fluoridation into a religious issue.  It's a public health
issue, it's not a religious issue.  They say God gave us pure
water, we don't need to add anything.  Well, we have really
good water here, but guess what?  We already add things to it.
I don't hear anybody saying that we shouldn't put chlorine in
our water, because we clearly need it.  And when we buy any
food or any drinks that come in bottles or cans, if that food
came from outside of Hawaii, chances are that already was made
with fluoridated water.  Even if it's organic, even if it came
from outposts, it's probably already got fluoride in it.
 People always have a choice about what they eat and
drink.  Whether our water is fluoridated or not, people always
will have a choice.  A lot of people here drink bottled water
and they drink water from private sources, and that will always
be their options.  So please fluoridate our water.  Thank you.
(Applause).
 
CHAIRMAN TAGORDA:  Thank you very much.  Dr. Lorrin Pang.
 
MS. DEBRA MAPEL:  Good evening.  Dr. Pang couldn't
be here tonight and requested that I read his testimony for
him.  Dr. Pang is Maui County District Health Officer for the
Department of Health.
 Gentlemen:  This is a letter of endorsement
supporting fluoridation of the water system for the prevention
of dental carries.  There is overwhelming evidence that
fluoridation is technically feasible, cost-effective, and has a
track record of safety and benefits in the vast majority of US
cities.  What is needed now is the political will to take this
important next step of getting the job done.
 With dental treatment so spotty for Hawaii's
under-insured and uninsured, we need to try every possible
route for the prevention of dental disease.  This is especially
true for children, who would benefit the most.  Understandably,
there will be controversy surrounding any type of program on
such a large scale.  But the strongest scientific and medical
arguments in support of fluoridation are based on extremely
large numbers and extensive monitoring of US populations which
have used fluoridated water for so long.  Certainly the data
has confirmed significant benefits, with zero side effects.
 Many of the counter arguments are based on
extrapolations from higher doses or different forms of
fluoride.  In medicine this type of extrapolation is very
misleading.  Anything, even water and oxygen in high enough
doses can be harmful, yet in lower doses are not only
beneficial but absolutely necessary.  I hope you take this bold
step in recommending fluoridation for Molokai.  Thank you.

CHAIRMAN TAGORDA:  Thank you very much.  Mahea
Davis, followed by Jo Ann Simms.
 
MS. MAHEA DAVIS:  Aloha, Board of Water Supply
members.  My name is Mahealani Davis.  I'm speaking here on my
own behalf this evening.  I was one of the people whose name
was in the paper endorsing fluoride.  When I was a child I took
-- was forced to take fluoride tablets.  My mother made us
take them every night until I was a teenager and stopped taking
them, and I never had cavities.  So that's my experience with
fluoride.
 I support fluoride, the use of fluoride.  I know it
has dynamic benefits.  However, I'm concerned about the water
systems and putting things into the water system.  I'm one of
the so-called water activists on the island, and over the years
have looked at the safety and the setup of systems on the
island.  I've been concerned about chloride rates in the water
system.  We have been concerned about techite pipes making
parts of the older portions which contains asbestos, which has
known health affects.  So there's a lot of things that concern
me about the water system and water on the island, separate
from this issue.
 Added to that, it seems like the division in the
community, pro or con, rests on a couple of key things.  One,
does it have to go into the water system.  Not the benefits.  I
don't think many people question whether or not there are
benefits, it's does it have to go into the water system.  And
the second thing related of course is the opportunity to have a
choice about it.
 So there are a couple of things I see as possibly an
alternative or a solution to all of the things that people are
bringing up, which are all good points that need to be
considered by you folks.  There needs to be continual education
about good hygiene, because fluoride is not the end-all answer
to everything.  We mostly agree on that.  People seem to be
saying they want access to affordable alternatives, whether
it's pills or mouth washes or trips to the dentist.  There are
different ways to get fluoride, but not everyone on this island
can afford those alternatives.
 So if we don't want it in our water, and some people
don't mind, and we want access to alternatives, can we consider
-- because there are many water systems on this island.  Hal
Edwards left already, yeah?  He said they operate three water
systems.  Well, DHHL has a few, and Board of Water Supply has a
few, and Kukui has one.  It seems like just about everybody has
their own water system.  So why don't have some fluoridated and
some not fluoridated, according to the desires of that specific
community that that system services.  I think that would be a
lot more fair.
 Just in closing, I really think that given all the
things you need to consider, there are two things that are
paramount to me.  That choice be preserved on this island,
maybe by the way that I've suggested.  And second, that the
decision you make is based on Molokai's voice.  I'm troubled to
have heard that a lot of testimony and letters and whatnot have
come in to you from people who are not Molokai residents.
 
CHAIRMAN TAGORDA:  Thank you.
 
MS. MAHEA DAVIS:  I'd like to make sure that the
community decision is based on what you've heard from Molokai
people.  Thank you.  (Applause).
 
CHAIRMAN TAGORDA:  Thank you very much.  Jo Ann
Simms, followed by Ken Bare.
 
MS. JO ANN SIMMS:  I'm here because I don't want to
be an apathetic Molokai resident.  Born and raised here, I was
forced to take fluoride as a child with the permission of my
parents, and many other classmates that are here.  I have
nothing bad to say against fluoride, I think it does work.  I
want to, you know, I called Debs and said, "Debs, give me some
info, I need facts."  I called Judy, "Give me some info, I need
facts, because I wasn't here for any hearings" or whatever.
And then we developed into it on our own.
 In the meantime, I sat at a friend's house just now
before I decided to go home and I wrote this.  Basically, I
have come to a conclusion that water is essential to life and
we all have to drink it, that is common knowledge.  There is no
investigation, no need for specific researches and
rationalizing.  We all need water to survive.  So the only
issue here is not fluoridation, but fluoridation distributed
through our public water supply.  And so in lieu of that issue,
I was thinking well, what are suggestions?  I know everyone
says alternatives and never come through.  But if we have a
goal and put an objective out there, we can do it.
 I have five suggestions, and one is with parental
permission administer topical fluoride through the schools.
They did that for us.  Dental hygiene picks came in.  We went
home and took tablets.  Administer fluoride through the
practicing dentists.  Administer fluoride through local health
fairs, create fluoridation fairs.  I don't know, distribute
fluoride via vitamin drops, drops for infants and toddlers.
And administer by teaching dental hygiene.  Create a health
curricula involved around dental health issues and educate via
preschool and elementary aged children, because that's where
our problems are right now.  And teach less consumption of
refined sugars, like the soda pops we all are used to
drinking.  Flossing, use easier to handle flosses. Brushing at
least twice a day, blah, blah, blah.
 My mom is a stroke victim and she has use of one
arm.  She has to floss because she has some caps in there, and
blah, blah, blah.  But anyway, she can and is able to use that
little plastic floss mechanism.  So children can be taught with
practice.  They will get good at it, especially if it's part of
curriculum.  And if parents and childcare providers are not
astute to dental care or does not make the time to follow up
with their children, our hope is to teach our children cause
and effect.  If we don't care for our teeth and gums as
children, when we are older the effects will be no teeth to
chew our foods with, or become a proud owner of a gleaming set
of dentures.  So make it practical for them.  Show them.
Figure out a reward.  I have this because of medical care
dental coverage for our families on subsistence living.  What
type of encouraging steps could be created in that realm.  So
personally I do not like the fact --
 
CHAIRMAN TAGORDA:  Your time is up.
 
MS. JO ANN SIMMS: Thank you, thank you.  But I do
not support fluoridation in our water supply.  (Applause).
 
CHAIRMAN TAGORDA:  Thank you.  Ken Bare, followed by
Emmett Aluli.
 
MR. KEN BARE:  Hi.  I'm Ken Bare, a newcomer to this
island.  And normally I wouldn't be a newcomer and just jump up
and say something.  You have very many caring and lovely people
in this community, and that's one of the reasons I chose to
come here.  I spend about six months a year here and six months
a year in Alaska.  I have lived in many other places in the
United States too, and many of these cities that have
fluoridated water also have water that you can't drink out of
the tap water.  I'm not saying it's the fluoridation, but I'm
saying the people don't really drink the tap water in many of
the US cities.  Bottled water is one of the biggest growing
industries in our country.
 My city that I live the other six months of the year
in is Sitka, Alaska, and they've just signed a contract for a
million dollars a year to the City Council to sell our water,
because it's pure and has no additives in it.  We were recently
to the school bazaar the other day downtown here, and I see
soda pop costs 50 cents a can.  Bottled water costs a dollar.
I don't get it, you know.  I mean the kid is going to drink the
soda pop.  What the heck, it's 50 cents, you know.
 I also was downtown, not to rag on this city, I love
this city, but I go up to the city supply's water faucet here
and one, it's dirty.  I turned it on and I wasn't sure I wanted
to drink out of it.  I was pretty thirsty.  I looked down and
it came up about this high (indicating), you know.  And I'm
going, "Hey, I can't even get a drink of water here, you know.
I've got to go buy my dollar water."
 So I really wonder if a study needs to be done.  I'd
like to see a study done of how much water kids actually drink
out of the tap before we go putting stuff in to help them.  You
know, I really feel, you know, there's a lot of caring people,
the dentists, the nurses that have talked here.  I know they
want the best for the kids.  But I'm really not certain that
even if fluoride is great, that it's going to help.
 And I have some other questions that haven't been
brought up.  One is this is -- there's a lot of farming done in
this community.  I plan on doing some here myself, and hope to
be able to do something good with the small piece of land we
have.  What's going to be the effect in 20 years, 50 years?
We're kind of short-sighted.  We look at things as 50 years,
that's a long time, but it's a little spec in the history.
It's nothing, it's dust.  What happens in 50 years, 100 years,
300 years of the fact of putting chemicals that don't belong in
our water at that level onto the land that don't dissipate?  I
don't know.  I think there are so many things that are unknown
totally.
 And the medical quackery idea of all this is my own
dentist ten years ago said that "silver fillings are okay, you
know, that's a bunch of alarmists, don't worry about it."  He's
even softened his position, and he's going, "I'm not so sure
about this now."  And I think the dental association has their
own inner workings.  They're not solid on this.  I don't think
every dentist is.  So I would say keep Molokai's water pure and
clean, and teach our children to eat well and drink well.
Thank you.
 
CHAIRMAN TAGORDA:  Thank you, Mr. Bare. Emmett
Aluli, followed by Walter Ritte.
 
MR. EMMETT ALULI: Aloha.  I'm Emmett Aluli, I've
been in primary care as a physician here on Molokai for 25
years.  I'm a founding member of the Native Hawaiian health
care system and ex-board president for about 12 years.  I'm now
co-medical executive director of Molokai General Hospital.
Besides that, I still am a Native Hawaiian rights activist and
environmental activist.
 And I want to say that I put my work and almost put
my career down on the line, my ass on the line to this
community for fluoridation.  The reason is healthy and
attractive teeth.  In my professional opinion, things are
getting worse here.  Kids no longer open their mouths for
physicians because they don't want to show their teeth.  There
seems to be some sort of personality change with somebody with
bad teeth.  I haven't been able to figure that out.
 But the problem for us here is things are getting
worse.  I mean it seems as if the poorer you are, the less
educated you are, the lower your social economic status, the
worse your teeth.  That's well known, and it's our professional
opinion that this is occurring.
 We are in the legislature trying not to get
fluoridation passed but to keep the current services going here
on Molokai from our hospital in this community.  One of the
priorities is health and wellness.  And when we were part of
the initial discussions and in the formation of the Dental
Health Coalition, it was something that needed to be done.  The
education that surrounds us here tonight and always in the
different newspapers are most valuable.
 I agree with Mahealani Davis, there are water
systems that are not under your jurisdiction.  There was a
wonderful experiment in Mauna Loa about 20 years ago and the
health professionals all noticed the difference.  If you want
to prove to this community that fluoridation works in five to
eight years, then allow some of the other water systems to get
fluoridated.  Thanks.  (Applause).
 
CHAIRMAN TAGORDA:  Thank you very much.  Walter
Ritte, followed by Cynthia Luafalemana.
 
MR. WALTER RITTE:  Aloha, my name is Walter Ritte.
And first of all, thank you for coming to Molokai.  And to all
the professionals, mahalo for inviting them to come over.  I
don't think any other island is going through this process, so
thank you very much.
 I'm a product of Dr. Chu.  How many of you are a
product of Dr. Chu?  If you are a product of Dr. Chu you hate
cavities.  Dr. Chu used to lean over me and lift his whole body
off the floor while he was trying to get ahold of my teeth, and
he didn't stop until all the smoke was coming out of the
cavity, and he would shoot the water.  So all of us went
through that.
 I hate cavities.  I brush my teeth because I'm
really scared of dentists, so that much I know as a fact.  The
other thing I know as a fact is that I am a firm supporter of
the environment and water.  And for me tonight I know very
little about fluoride, to tell you the truth.  I've heard two
sides of the story, so I guess I'm somewhere floating around
about who is talking to me last and who is saying what.  So the
fluoride is not my issue tonight, my issue is the water, the
water, the water, the water.  The water is the most precious
thing.
 So if we're going to do anything with this very
precious, precious thing, it had better be the last possible I
believe alternative.  It had better be very, very critical.
And it cannot be something that we all don't agree upon.  The
water is the most precious thing.  That's what our kupuna
taught us.  So what is the word for precious?  It's two waters,
so that's how precious, wai wai.  I mean we're talking about
something that is -- that much I know.  So I have to be on the
side of this precious thing called water, and we don't have a
community that is all telling you to do something.
 So I don't think you should do anything unless we
all kind of get our act together about what we want to do with
this water.  And if we cannot do it with the water, then I'm
willing to sit down with groups and everything to come up with
alternatives, whatever the alternatives are.  Thank you very
much.  (Applause).
 
CHAIRMAN TAGORDA:  Thank you, Mr. Ritte. Cynthia
Luafalemana, followed by Loretta Ritte.

MS. CYNTHIA LUAFALEMANA:  Hi.  I'm Cynthia
Luafalemana, and I have one alternative that we've all done,
and that's this:  Bottled fluoride, that's it.  Everybody buys
bottled water, why not just fluoride it.  That's it.  That's
all I need to say.  I support both sides.  We all have our own
opinions.  And I've been to these dentists, Dr. Takashima, and
they all know my children from babies.  But, you know, the
solution is right there.  We bottle water, we bottle soda, we
bottle apple juice, we bottle everything.  We can food, we even
can the fruit.  Just bottle the fluoride, that's it.  Thank
you.  (Applause).
 
CHAIRMAN TAGORDA:  Thank you very much.  Loretta
Ritte, followed by Vanessa Gonzales.
 
MS. LORETTA RITTE:  Aloha.  My name is Loretta
Ritte, and I come to oppose fluoridation of the water.  And I
too, like most of the people that have come forth, it's like I
go to the dentist and I see them when I need dental assistance,
but I think we need to keep the two separate.  I think there
are other alternatives in dealing with tooth decay, and we need
to keep the water pure.  That's my manao, is that we need to
keep it pure.  There's been so much tampering with our water.
I mean I have been to places, like the man from Alaska, where
you just don't drink water from that city, and I wouldn't want
to see that happen here on Molokai.  So I say no fluoridation,
find other solutions.  Mahalo.  (Applause).
 
CHAIRMAN TAGORDA:  Vanessa Gonzales, followed by
Susan Goodhue.
 
MS. VANESSA GONZALES:  Aloha. My name is Vanessa
Gonzales, and I've submitted written testimony.  I'm just going
to read what I wrote.  This is my husband Kenneth Gonzales.
The letter is from both of us, and it says we are writing to
voice our opinion in the matter of fluoridation of Molokai's
water supply.  As two tax paying citizens of Maui County, let
this letter serve as two votes in opposition to fluoridation.
Do you want to read?

MR. KENNETH GONZALES:  There are currently multiple
options for families to provide fluoride for their children
without involving the whole water supply system.  Maintenance
of a pure, pristine water supply continues to be a priority for
our community.  There are no guarantees from the County or the
state that would prevent accidents or toxic levels of fluoride
from contaminating our water source.  We insist that our voices
are heard in your decision on this matter.  Despite the best
intentions of our government, the people have a right to
control decisions made in our community.  This letter is being
submitted today as testimony.
 I just want to add a few quick notes.  And again,
there are more than one major issue here, one being the effects
of the water, which is a major priority clearly of your board.
The question of children's dental health is one that I can
almost guarantee that everyone in here is concerned about.  We
want our children to be healthy overall, and we know that the
health of teeth and gums is crucial to overall health of the body.
 Fluoride is beneficial.  I'll tell you the truth,
for those who promote fluoride I think we can continue to do a
better job of actually showing plain facts, because I think
there's been a lot of innuendo, accusations on both sides over
the last couple of weeks in this community that I've been
surprised at.  Clearly for the matter of choice, we need to
make clear that alternatives are available.  I've heard today
even spoken that I see many children also in the kind of work
that I do, and I can tell you that children are very open to
letting professionals exam them in this community.  I've never
had, very rarely had difficulty in examining a child.  And I
think that they're very often willing to show them their teeth
and mouth when you approach it the right way.
 I just clearly just quickly want to list that some
of the alternatives that have been mentioned here, offering
fluoride in schools.  For me to get fluoride for my child you
have to get a prescription, so I don't know if you can hand it
out for free.  There must be a reason you need a prescription
for it.  And then through, you know, local physicians'
offices.  The vast majority of children on this island are
insured and they see their pediatrician regularly.  That is a
way that they can begin fluoride, particularly the zero to five
age group.
 And the bottom line is the right to choice.  They
are more likely to reach a vast majority of young children due
to our small population.  Maybe they need to fluoridate in a
seven million person city, but on this island clearly we could
reach the vast majority of zero to five children in a concerted
effort to offer fluoride to those children who want it.
 And in closing, the CDC, when it comes to
immunizations, which are individual things that parents
approach, they have to sign before being given their child
their immunizations, to show that they're explained both the
risks and benefits of that immunization.  The federal
government has a vaccine adverse reaction reporting system in
the event there is an adverse reaction to any immunization.  If
there's an effect of one of those immunizations, there's a
national insurance policy that helps the families.  In the
event of a toxic overflow or something like that, like when the
pool gets closed here, at times the County pools have to be
closed because of various this and that.  If something like
that were to happen, would the county or state guarantee some
type of back-up program insurance program for the people
affected?  That would be interesting.
 The bottom line is water purity.  It comes out of
the mountains.  If you really want to give your children
fluoride on this island, we have ways to do it.  Mahalo.  God
bless you all.
 
CHAIRMAN TAGORDA:  Thank you very much.  Susan
Goodhue, followed by Georgina Kuahuia.  Please state your name
for the record.
 
MS. SUSAN GOODHUE:  Good evening, Commissioners.
Aloha and good evening my fellow community members.  And also
to the Molokai Dental Health Coalition I want to give you a big
thank you for passing this survey out to us, because it really
made me start putting my thoughts into a more concise manner.
And actually, I think it's making me still go through my
thoughts on this.  And so I decided I'd make a copy of it and
I'd just read what I said on this.  And it has really made me
do some more thinking.  And even after I filled this out and I
put, "Did you receive enough information on fluoridation," and
I wrote "Yes," and now the more I think about it the more I
think my answer should have been no.  But I want the
information to come from my own independent research at this
point.
  And this is what I wrote.  I put the only thing or
things done to the public water supply should be merely in the
interest of making it pure and clean.  The public water supply
is not a medical or anything else delivery system.  Those that
want fluoride in their -- just a minute, I've got to put on my
glasses, I'm not used to wearing them all the time.  Okay.
Those that want fluoride in their water can purchase bottled
water with that additive.  Amendment 15 of the constitution of
the United States states, Section One states, "The right of
citizens of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be
denied or abridged by the United States or by any state on
account of race, color or previous condition of servitude."
 An issue of this magnitude which affects every man,
woman, child, baby, kupuna, cat, dog, livestock, plants, aina,
unless one has a dedicated ag water line, well, stream
connection or catchment system should be on the ballot and be
decided in a manner most important to a democratic system of
government, the vote.  The Legislature or any other appointed
board should not be deciding an issue of this magnitude for
us.  This is the United States of America, not Soviet Russia.
 Anything less than a public vote on a matter of such basic
importance as the introduction of a questionable chemical to
the public water supply is in my opinion coercion.  Each island
has its own water supply and should be able to determine by the
vote its own water standards on the issue of fluoridated water.
 And I would just like to read a follow-up on this
out of the paper here, which was quoted by Debs in something
from the American Dental Association booklet called Water
Fluoridation.
 
CHAIRMAN TAGORDA:  Excuse me, time is up.
 
MS. SUSAN GOODHUE:  The last sentence here is
talking about, "must constantly remind themselves that one way
or another the decision to fluoridate will be made by the
people either through elected or appointed officials, or at the
ballot box."  And I favor the ballot box.  Thank you.
(Applause).

CHAIRMAN TAGORDA:  Thank you very much.
Georgina Kuahuia, followed by Glenn Izawa.
 
MS. GEORGINA KUAHUIA:  I'm Georgina Kuahuia.  I
always get new names.  I'm Georgina Kuahuia, okay.  I am here
as a parent and as for myself.  I'm going to testify about my
family, okay.  I have six children.  We all go to the dentist.
Out of my six children, one of them does not brush his teeth.
He don't do nothing.  So when we go to the dentist we walk in
and we have to repeat and go back in and get our cavities
filled in.
 Now, this one child that does not brush his teeth
walks in, walks out, smiles, says, "See you later."  So what is
it?  They go to school, they ask us parents sign this paper if
you want your child to get fluoride treatment.  Toothpaste, I'm
still brushing with toothpaste, still have fluoride, another
alternative.  My niece says -- she did a great job on that,
bottled fluoride just how the bottled mouthwash, spit 'em out,
that's what they tell us.  So we have a lot of alternatives, we
have a lot of studies to do.
 But I am opposing fluoride in my water.  My water is
precious to me.  I drink close to two gallons of water a day
because I don't drink soda and I don't like to drink juice.
And that's for me, that's for my health is clean water.  So I
don't want any other additives added to it.  So I stand against
fluoridation in my water because my water is precious to me.
Thank you.  (Applause).
 
CHAIRMAN TAGORDA:  Thank you very much.  Glenn Izawa.
 
MR. GLENN IZAWA:  My name is Glenn Izawa and I'm
representing the Molokai Health Foundation.  Other members of
the foundation might have spoken already to you.  I submitted
my written testimony awhile ago, and I need to call your
attention to one thing.  I spelled fluoridation wrong.  Usually
it's O before U, your, our.  Fluoridation is otherwise, it's U
before O.  But that's a consistent mistake throughout the
letter that I sent to you, yeah.
 I just wanted to bring up one point of my letter,
and that is this.  For 30 to 50 years now, 145 million
Americans have had the benefit of fluoridated water.  It's
inconceivable to me that with so many using it and over such a
long time that anything could be wrong with it, so to speak.  I
don't think there's been any government agency that's felt
compelled to do anything about the 145 million people drinking
fluoridated water.  I think that's the proof of the pudding, so
to speak.  It's been an effective prophylactic against dental
decay.  I think our water should be fluoridated.  Thank you.
 
CHAIRMAN TAGORDA:  Thank you very much, sir.  That
concludes the public testimony portion of the agenda.  The next
agenda is Communication 0051, communication from Debra Mapel of
the Molokai Dental Health Coalition regarding fluoridation of
the Molokai water system.
 
MS. DEBRA MAPEL:  Okay, good evening Chairman
Tagorda and the Maui Water Board members.  Welcome to Molokai.
I am Deborah Mapel, and for the past few months I've had the
privilege to speak before the Board on behalf of the Molokai
Dental Health Association.  We requested the adjustment of the
fluoride deficient concentration in our public water system to
the level optimal for dental health.  Tonight you got to meet
my fellow members of the coalition and our community as we
shared with you our views on fluoridation.
 The Department of Health offered our island an
opportunity to right a wrong and provide a benefit long
overdue.  It was the coalition's intention to inform the public
on fluoridation and ensure this opportunity did not slip away.
So many times Molokai cannot have services because of our size
or population.  This time the opposite was true.  The
Department of Health is able to completely fund this initiative
with money available for preventative programs.
 As the coalition facilitator, I took on several new
roles not normally part of my dental hygiene duties.  While
this is not the first public issue I have been involved with, I
have learned much from this experience.  Fluoridation is a
natural phenomena and has been around for 50 years.  Many
people have lived in places with fluoridation.  Remarkably,
even here on Molokai, and were comfortable with the idea.  The
challenge was to address this broad subject on many different
levels with those who were uneasy with the idea.  Even
condensing the facts for this Board into a timely yet
informative presentation was a test.  Much time has been spent
to research the information just about the dental history and
situation today on Molokai, although any of the dental or
medical offices will tell you that it's not good.  As the
saying goes, if you could spend a day in our shoes you would
understand why we so adamantly endorse fluoridation.
 I was with this committee in January, and it was
mentioned that fluoridation is a public health issue and not a
water issue.  How right you were.  Even though fluoride is
found in all water, including sea water at 1.3 parts per
million, it is the significant dental benefits that we
recognize.  We have good water and we can make it better.
 Presently we also recognize that good dental health
is essential to good overall health.  Why we are not providing
this benefit for everyone, I cannot understand.  Is
fluoridation necessary for Molokai to improve our health?
After 22 years of working on this island, first as a public
health hygienist doing the topical fluoride school program, and
in the last 21 years in private practice, I can say without any
doubt this opportunity to fluoridate our water is not only
necessary but the best thing that could happen for everyone.
  I just wanted to give you the survey.  The Board did
request some items from the coalition.  I've tried to provide
all those items, and we completed the survey.  We also have our
petition and the endorsement from the professionals on the
island.  I just wanted to give the result of the survey for the
public here tonight, if that's okay.
 
CHAIRMAN TAKITANI:  Thank you very much,.
 
MS. DEBRA MAPEL:  Can I just give them one result?
I'm sorry.
 
CHAIRMAN TAGORDA:  Yes, go ahead.
 
MS. DEBRA MAPEL:  We did send out a mailout survey
last week.  Maybe can I just give them one result?  I'm sorry.
 
CHAIRMAN TAGORDA:  Go ahead.
 
MS. DEBRA MAPEL:  We did send out a mailout survey
last week, it was totally unanimous.  It had a questionnaire
for the public to fill out and send back.  As of today, we
received 462 responses.  Those against, 138; those unsure, 69;
and those in favor, 255.  I have those reports to submit to you
tonight.  Thank you.
 
CHAIRMAN TAGORDA:  Thank you very much.  Well,
before I adjourn this meeting, I would like to ask my committee
members if they have some remarks or comments to make.
 
MR. GEORGE PEABODY:  Excuse me, Mr. Chair.  Would
you allow someone to add on some more testimony?
 
CHAIRMAN TAGORDA:  I believe we've finished
everything, Mr. Peabody, and that portion of the public
testimony has been closed.
 
MR. GEORGE PEABODY:  Could you reopen it?
 
CHAIRMAN TAGORDA:  Let me ask my --
 
(Brief pause in proceedings).
 
 CHAIRMAN TAGORDA:  Well, I would like to ask my
 members if --
 
(Whereupon the audiotaping was suspended)