BOARD OF WATER SUPPLY
COUNTY OF MAUI
REGULAR BOARD MEETING
Held at the Kahului Shopping Center, Kaahumanu Avenue,
Kahului, Maui, Hawaii, commencing at 9:00 a.m. on
March 20, 2003.
REPORTED BY: LYNANN NICELY, RPR/RMR/CSR #354
IWADO COURT REPORTERS, INC.
A P P E A R A N C E S
BOARD MEMBERS:
Mike Nobriga, Chairman
Clark Hashimoto, Vice Chairman
Kent Hiranaga
Ginnie Parsons
Jonathan A. Starr
Adolph Helm
STAFF PRESENT:
George Tengan, Director
Ed Kushi, Corporation Counsel
Cathy Howard, Board Secretary
IWADO COURT REPORTERS, INC.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Call the Board of Water
Supply regular board meeting to order at 9 o'clock.
We're at Kahului Shopping Center at Unit 29.. Unit
rented by the County of Maui for an official County of
Maui place of residence.
In attendance at today's meeting is Kent
Hiranaga, board member; board member Jonathan Starr;
board member Clark Hashimoto; board member Adolph
Helm. Mrs. Adolph Helm in the audience; we thank her
for coming today. Chair Michael Nobriga. Board
member Ginnie Parsons will arrive momentarily; she
called to say she will be a little late. Also in
attendance is our board secretary, Cathy Howard;
director George Tengan; administrative specialist,
Jacky Takakura; our illustrious counsel, Dr. Edward
Kushi, Jr.
Is there any oral testimony at this time?
Hearing none, we'll move to written testimony.
We'll move to IV, Director's Reports. Director
03-04, Update on Upcountry Lead and Copper Rule
Compliance. Mr. Tengan.
MR. TENGAN: Mr. Chair, we do have a report to
the board on where we are with the lead and copper
rule compliance.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Mr. Tengan, the court
reporter has a hard time hearing you.
MR. TENGAN: Mr. Chair, we do have a staff
report on where we are on the lead and copper rule.
Last night we had a meeting with the community at
Hannibal Tavares Center and that was attended by about
20 people, I would estimate. It went along fairly
well, noncontroversial, but yet the community is not
satisfied that, you know, we are adding additives to
the water. And the community has formed a committee
on their own to look at the issue and to see how it
can be resolved and how eventually they can get it to
a point where the department wouldn't be required to
put any additives in the water.
I will let Jacky say a few words on this
because she has been handling this issue for the
department and she has been doing a good job. She's
made many contacts with state officials, the EPA, and
also some university professors. So she has been a
great resource.
MS. TAKAKURA: Good morning, everyone.
Actually, I counted last night there was almost 50
people at the meeting.
The first thing is we're still using the zinc
orthophosphate, the calgon C-9, at two and a half
parts per million. We are going to stop using it.
When we asked the Department of Health Safe Drinking
Water branch if we could stop using it, they did say
yes, if we use something else. We must use some sort
of chemical additive for treatment to control the
lead. So we're going to switch to phosphoric acid,
which is actually a component of the C-9. So this
next product is basically the same thing but without
the zinc. And we're hoping that that will put us in
compliance with the lead and copper rule and also
alleviate some of the things that our customers are
reporting.
The phosphoric acid hasn't come yet to Maui.
It's expected to arrive on March 21st. What I had
told our customers when I sent out the letter
informing them of the change was the expected start
date would be March 24th, which is next Monday. Now,
this is a soft date because now there is a lot of
other things going on, and security, so there might be
a change in the start date. If we do change the date,
I'll be sending out press releases to the radios and
to the newspapers.
We have been working with the Department of
Health, Maui District Health Office, in working with
the customers who have reported reactions and they're
helping us from the medical perspective and they will
continue to work with us on that.
The community group is made up of
approximately six or seven people, all from Upcountry,
and what they're looking at is going to the EPA for
perhaps a grant. It's been referred to as an
unsolicited grant. And they would be looking at
removing the lead from customers' homes. It seems
like a logical way to deal with lead, get rid of it,
although it is coming out to be a little bit more
complicated than it seems because one thing they are
going to have to do is sample a lot of homes and then
look at exactly where the lead is, is it in the
faucet, is it just in the pipes underneath the sinks,
or is it actually in the walls. And so it's going to
be a big job.
And one thing we need to make clear is that
even if all lead were to be removed, it's still up to
the EPA and the Department of Health, Safe Drinking
Water Branch, to say whether or not this additive is
required. They could still require it.
One thing that might happen would be that if
we are in compliance with the lead and copper rule, we
can reduce the amount of the additive. And the way it
works is every six months you do the round of
sampling. If you're in compliance, you could probably
reduce the amount of the additive by a quarter part
per million. Then you do six months later, you do the
round of sampling. If you're still in compliance, you
could reduce it down a bit, until you get to that
point where you're starting to see the lead levels
rise a little bit, you find that balance.
So we may not be able to ever stop using
treatment according to the EPA and the Safe Drinking
Water Branch, but we may be able to reduce it down so
that it is a very, very small amount.
The Department of Water Supply -- we're not an
active part of this community group although we are
providing them with the information that they need and
just some background information. Any questions?
MR. HASHIMOTO: Are the other counties using
C-9?
MS. TAKAKURA: The Big Island is using C-9 in
some of their systems and I know that it didn't work
in some places, but I do believe they are using it in
some other places.
When I was on the Big Island earlier this
month, I was talking to the engineer at the Big Island
Volcanos National Park. They use a catchment system,
so it's rainfall just like we use in the Upcountry
water system. And it's very acidic because it's the
volcano, so it has acid rain. The PH is about 4.5 to
5, with neutral being 7. They do treat the water,
they filter it, they use soda ash to balance it, and
then they add the corrosion control chemical so that
it's less corrosive. They were using C-9 and they
have just recently switched to the phosphoric acid in
the last couple of months and it is working for them
and they haven't had any problems with it. The reason
they switched was purely economical because the
phosphoric acid is cheaper. So that's one place that
I know is using phosphoric acid.
MR. HASHIMOTO: Were they getting any
complaints from their customers?
MS. TAKAKURA: No complaints at all, no, none.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Mr. Starr.
MR. STARR: I wanted to compliment you on the
way you're handling it and I think that you've
diffused a lot of the tension and concern.
I was a little bit concerned the other day
when I saw a Viewpoint in the Maui News by Kika
Bukoski and he seemed to state that the problem is the
use of surface water Upcountry and he seemed to be
saying that Upcountry should switch over to well
water. And, you know, apart from being a very
expensive proposition, I don't think that's a good
solution. So just from a PR point of view, it might
be good to plan some tours of the treatment plants and
show the community how great they are because I think
they are one of our real success stories and
accomplishments.
MS. TAKAKURA: Two things on that. The first
is that Kika Bukoski did show up last night and he has
gone over the rule and he's got a pretty good
understanding of how complicated this really is. And
the reason he brought up changing the source water is
because when you're in violation of the lead and
copper rule, the rule gives you four options. The
first one is treatment, which is what we're doing.
The second one is changing source, and I think that's
why he's looking at a different kind of water for
Upcountry, being ground water.
Yeah, I agree, he hasn't addressed the cost
issue and that's something that would need to be
discussed. But I believe that's why he is looking at
well water is because the second option after
treatment is changing the source. The third option is
public education, which must be used in conjunction
with something else; you can't just do education by
itself. And the fourth option is changing lead
service laterals, which is not an issue here on Maui.
The second issue is tours of the treatment
facilities. We're not doing those any more because of
the security threat. I agree with you, I wish we
would, but we just can't right now with things being
so uncertain.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Ms. Parsons?
MS. PARSONS: That was basically what I was
going to say, Jacky. I think that the groundwater we
have to start looking at especially for the
Kula/Upcountry area that we can't reach even with
Pookela online. And there are some other sources up
there, Jonathan, that maybe even HC&S has artesian
wells that we could swap out or do something with.
But there is no other -- from what I can understand
last night, even if we took care of all the lead and
copper problems in the homes and schools and
businesses, we would still have to keep the C-9 or
phosphate or whatever additive we have in the water
system. It never goes away now. It may drop off
significantly, but it will always be in there.
And it is a serious issue Upcountry. And I
e-mailed this last week, we discussed it. We are a
different environment here in Hawaii than they were on
the Mainland. We're a totally different environment.
And our UV is stronger, it breaks down materials --
and our salt factors break down materials that in
other parts of the country we don't have the same
problems with. And the soil is so mineral rich, even
what's in the soil tends to break things down. So
there may be factors that they have never looked at
that are here in Hawaii that we can't even comprehend
because there has been no studies.
The other suggestion is, too, it's such a
minute group that we have to deal with that has this
problem, is to do a one-on-one study and I think
that's what we've been planning on doing and get some
information on maybe where the causes are coming from.
I know myself as a homeowner that if I have a problem
from my meter to my house, I want to know about it and
I want to fix it and I think other people feel the
same way.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Mr. Starr.
MR. STARR: Yeah, it's my hope that the
phosphoric acid will not affect people's skin and if
that is the case -- there may still be a perceived
problem. I mean, I think all of us would like our
water to not have any outside chemicals in it. But if
it doesn't affect someone's skin or hurt them in any
way, then it's not a problem. I mean, no one has
brought up the fact that there are a lot of other
chemicals that are added to the water in the treatment
process. But since they don't cause any harm, you
know, other than possibly mixing the zinc
orthophosphate, it's not an issue. So hopefully with
the change over, the real problem, which is people who
are serious and do have a skin problem, will go away,
then it's a moot point.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Thank you, Mr. Starr.
Would there be a possibility of doing virtual tours of
the treatment facilities? How would we go about even
looking in that -- through our website and probably
would have to do a contract with somebody, but maybe
in the next budget cycle we might want to look at --
MS. TAKAKURA: I know some of our staff have
attended vulnerability assessment workshops sponsored
by American Waterworks Association. I'll ask them if
that's something that the other water utilities do.
We can look into that, definitely.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Because it would appear to
me that the affected areas are kind of high end on the
literacy of computers. I don't know what else -- how
else to put it. Ms. Parsons. I'm not done, but --
MS. PARSONS: I was just going to say even
when I attended the meeting last year on security,
even pictures and photos they weren't suggesting that
we even provide to the media. And I kind of think
that's probably just so that people can't figure out
exactly where it is or what it is in the case of a
terroristic issue.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Good point. Now, there is
talk about changing the source. Outside of the
Pookela well, which I know the board -- I don't think
the board has ever taken an action of the urgency that
we feel in getting that site online. So outside of
Pookela well coming online, the Lower Kula Punawai
project, what is actually next in the department's
thinking for the area?
MS. TAKAKURA: Are you talk about groundwater?
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Specific to the source,
changing source, okay, I know we have two big projects
on the books right now, one is the Pookela well, the
next step would be to get partnership and finance the
Lower Kula Punawai Reservoir.
MR. TENGAN: I guess one obvious thing is to
get the Hamakua Poko wells online, too. But I think
the original plan was to use the Hamakua Poko or the
H-Poko wells for the Central Maui system.
I've talked to the mayor about linking the
systems, the Central Maui system with the Upcountry
system, so that if need be, we could -- and if the
source was available, we could pump water from the
Central system up to the Upcountry system.
One thing we haven't discussed with the DOH is
the possibility of blending surface water with
groundwater. You know, that might be enough to
control the corrosivity of the water and prevent lead
from leaching into the system.
As far as other sources are concerned, we are
in talks with a private developer for the drilling of
a well. We also have had discussions with the State
Division of Water and Land Development. They're
looking for sites to put in another well to support
the state projects, so that's -- and besides the East
Maui project, that's basically what we're looking at
right now.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Thank you. Any further
questions? Mr. Helm.
MR. HELM: One last input. You know, I guess
there needs to be a financial assessment of what works
and what's practical. I guess if we're looking at the
customer and it seems like there is a minority group
that are actually impacted by this, and I don't know
whether it's more feasible to look at what kind of
subsidies could be provided to actually go
rehabilitate their lines, you know, downstream of the
meter, and I don't know whether that's possible, but
maybe financially that might be another alternative
which might be cheaper.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Thank you, Mr. Helm.
Ms. Parsons, you have the floor.
MS. PARSONS: Just two questions. Mr. Tengan,
when do you expect Pookela well to be online and what
are the next steps for it, first?
MR. TENGAN: We're working on the design
contract right now with the consultant that did the
original well, the exploratory well. We hope to close
that contract within the next couple weeks or so.
From there, we'll go out to bid. That will take
another 30 to 45 days, I would think, or maybe even up
to 60 days. And a year and a half following that -- I
would think that ideally it would be like two years
from now. And if we can push the project, maybe
optimistically a year and a half.
MS. PARSONS: The other thing you mentioned
you're working with developers to put some type of
system in. Do you need to or have we set standards,
county standards so that we don't run into another
Maui Ranch Acres Estate so that they're up to our
standards when these wells come online?
MR. TENGAN: Oh, no, this would be just for
the development of a source and not a water system.
MS. PARSONS: But what I'm asking is are you
setting a standard?
MR. TENGAN: We do have construction standards
that we go by.
MS. PARSONS: Well, I guess maybe I want to
clarify that. Do you need to -- do you need to set a
standard for any wells that come online now as a
result of developers deciding that they are going to
drill their own wells? Do you need to set standards
up to county standards in order to sign off on them?
MR. TENGAN: These developers know that the
wells have to be constructed to our standards before,
you know, in order for us to consider accepting the
wells.
MS. PARSONS: Do we want to -- I guess what
I'm saying is if they are going to put them online, do
we want to accept them? And if so, should there be
some kind of rule that says -- I already know that in
order to accept them, they have to be up to our county
standards, but maybe we need to go a little bit
further and I know we're not dealing with private well
systems any more under the board, but maybe from the
department's standpoint of just making it, you know, a
full carpet on everybody that they have to be
developed up to county standards from this point
forward so that you don't run into this private well
system where somebody has six or seven lots and
decides they are going to drill a well and he can
drill it anywhere he wants to because he can get the
permit from the state.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Ms. Parsons, I believe you
answered your own question. You did answer your own
question. It involves rule making. Under present
conditions where rule making authority has not been
specified, that would be the next step.
MR. TENGAN: Yeah, I believe you're talking
about a private water system and my understanding is
that we don't have any jurisdiction over these systems
now.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Mr. Starr.
MR. STARR: Yeah. Who is the developer, where
is the subdivision that they intend to supply water to
within the well, and where are they thinking of
putting the new well?
MR. TENGAN: I would rather not say that now
because the site itself hasn't been determined, but
they are looking at developing land -- some property
up in the Pukalani area.
MR. STARR: Is that Maui Land & Pine with the,
what is it, Five Trees by Kekaulike?
MR. TENGAN: I guess that's the area they're
looking at. But as far as the exact well site, that
hasn't been determined yet and we haven't come to
agreement as to the site.
MR. STARR: Are they looking to put the well
at Pookela or are they looking to put it more toward
Pukalani?
MR. TENGAN: I believe it's more toward
towards Pukalani.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Mr. Helm.
MR. HELM: No, I don't have anything.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Is that it? Oh,
Ms. Takakura.
MR. TAKITANI: I just have two things. In
response to Adolph's comment, I am working with staff
at council services on looking at what kind of
resources are available for loans or grants to people
to change out plumbing. We've been looking at U.S.
Department of Agriculture, similar to Maui Ranch
Estates, and possibly HUD, just to see what options,
because there are things out there. So we're doing
that research.
The second thing is that we do have another
public information meeting scheduled for probably the
end of May or beginning of June. We're going to wait
until we start using the phosphoric acid and we take
the round of sampling and get the results to see if
it's effective or not and we're going to have another
public meeting at that time.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Thank you. If there is no
objections, communication is filed.
Going to Other Business, Item A, Approval of
Resolution. Motion is in order to accept Resolution
Number 2-2003.
MR. HASHIMOTO: So moved.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Moved by Mr. Hashimoto.
Seconded by Ms. Parsons.
Board of Water Supply, County of Maui,
Resolution No. 2-2003. Whereas Adolph M. Helm of
Hoolehua, Molokai, was appointed to the Board of Water
Supply of the County of Maui on April 1st, 1998, and
his term will expire on March 31, 2003.
Whereas the said Adolph M. Helm served as Vice
Chairperson of the Board of Water Supply from April 1,
1999 to March 31, 2000.
Whereas during his term on the Board of Water
Supply, he served as Co-Chairperson of the Public and
Government Relations Committee.
Whereas the said Adolph M. Helm has
unselfishly and with dedication devoted, without
compensation, his time and energy into matters dealing
with the Board of Water Supply, all in the interests
of the people of the County of Maui.
Whereas during the time of his service as a
Board Member, he has contributed generously of his
knowledge and skills to make business and policy
decisions for the board that would influence its
direction and operation for the years ahead.
Whereas his interest in this Board and the
Department has been greatly appreciated by his fellow
board members, now therefore be it resolved by the
Board of Water Supply of the County of Maui that it
does here by congratulate, commend, and thank, major
mahalos, to the said Adolph M. Helm for his five years
of faithful and outstanding service he has rendered as
a member of the Board of Water Supply. And be it
further resolved that the members of this board extend
to Adolph M. Helm our sincere aloha and best wishes
for his continued success and much happiness in his
future endeavors.
And be it further resolved that a certified
copy of this resolution be transmitted to the said
Adolph M. Helm and to the Maui County Mayor and
Council.
Approved as to form and legality by Edward S.
Kushi, Jr., Deputy Corporation Counsel.
Members, roll call vote. Clark Hashimoto.
MR. HASHIMOTO: Aye.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Adolph Helm.
MR. HELM: Aye.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Kent Hiranaga.
MR. HIRANAGA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Mike Nobriga. Aye.
Virginia Parsons.
MS. PARSON: Aye.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Jonathan A. Starr.
MR. STARR: Aye.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Michael P. Victorino,
excused. Congratulations. Mr. Helm, you have the
floor.
MR. HELM: I didn't prepare anything, but I
think at this point it's better to speak from the
heart. I would like to say mahalo, thank you very
much, and I would like to say if I reflect back from
day one and to where we're at right now in terms of my
growth, I think it was a very rewarding experience and
a very learning one. I think I've grown over the
period of years in regards to understanding the
process.
I appreciate very much the staff and their
support and their contributions to the County of Maui.
I appreciate that very much.
I just want to say good luck to the rest of
the board members and good luck to our new director,
George Tengan. Mahalo. And I would just like to
leave with this note that we are blessed with the
opportunity to make a difference and I know that
you'll do the best job that you can do and I
appreciate all of your support and thank you.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Motion is in order to
accept Resolution No. 3-2003.
MR. HASHIMOTO: So moved.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Moved by Mr. Hashimoto.
Seconded by Ms. Parsons. Board of Water Supply County
of Maui Resolution No. 3-2003.
Whereas Jonathan A. Starr of Kipahulu, Maui,
was appointed to serve out the unexpired term of
another board member of the Board of Water Supply of
the County of Maui on April 1st, 1999, his term will
expire on March 31, 2003.
Whereas the said Jonathan A. Starr served as
Chairperson of the Operations Review Committee.
Whereas the said Jonathan A. Starr has
unselfishly and with dedication devoted, without
compensation, his time and energy into matters dealing
with the Board of Water Supply, all in of the
interests of the people of the County of Maui.
Whereas during his time of service as a board
member, he has contributed generously of his knowledge
and skills to make business and policy decisions for
the board that will influence its direction and
operation for the years ahead.
Whereas his interest in the board and the
department has been greatly appreciated by his fellow
board members. Now, therefore, be it resolved by the
Board of Water Supply of the County of Maui that it
does hereby congratulate, commend, and thank the said
Jonathan A. Starr for the four years of faithful and
outstanding service he has rendered as a member of the
this Board of Water Supply.
And be it further resolved that the members of
the board extend to Jonathan A. Starr sincere aloha
and best wishes for his continued success and much
happiness in his future endeavors.
And be it further resolved that a certified
copy of this resolution be transmitted to the said
Jonathan A. Starr and to the Maui County Mayor and
Council.
Approved as to form and legality by Edward S.
Kushi, Jr., Deputy Corporation Counsel.
Roll call vote. Clark Hashimoto.
MR. HASHIMOTO: Aye.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Adolph Helm.
MR. HELM: Aye.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Kent Hiranaga.
MR. HIRANAGA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Mike Nobriga. Aye.
Virginia Parsons.
MS. PARSONS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Jonathan A. Starr.
MR. STARR: Aye.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Michael P. Victorino,
excused. It has been carried. Thank you.
Mr. Starr, you have the floor.
MR. STARR: Okay. I'll be brief. It's been
an interesting experience. When I got on a board
commission for the very first time, I was -- I used to
call it the commission from hell, it was the Hana
Advisory to the Maui Planning Commission. And we had
a session in the county building for new board members
and I think Brian Moto was giving us a briefing and
they gave us a little book. And the main thing that
stuck in my mind was both on the book and in Brian
Moto's words were "be bold," you know, if you believe
something, if you feel something, be bold. And I
always tried to do that on the board. And I apologize
if I, you know, offended anyone in doing it. My
intent was really to just try to do the right thing.
And you know, those times when I have forced myself to
be bold, those stick out in my mind as the places
where, you know, I feel probably some of our greatest
successes came, and I include in that Pookela well
because I was oppositioned especially from a former
member about putting that well in and, you know, I
think that that's really going to save the day
Upcountry and quite a few other things.
So I really just want to have the board
members who will be continuing and coming on board to
keep that in mind. If you feel something is wrong or
feel something is right, that you be bold, do it,
whatever it takes to do it. Even if it means going
out to the press or going out to the outside community
to do it, do what you feel is right, and, you know, we
have done a lot. It's been a great experience.
I have nothing but great respect for my other
board members. Also for George, I think he's doing a
great job. And the staff and Cathy and Jacky and
everyone else. We have the best counsel that I've
seen on the board right now as well, so thanks Ed.
And just keep going and, you know, two other
issues you guys have to deal with, I wish I could
participate is the rates and be resentless in getting
new sources both for Central and Upcountry, even
getting more water online. And I've been proud to
serve. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Thank you, Jonathan. And
knowing the type of person you are, you are so
emotionally charged and dedicated to the people of
Maui County, I know somehow you will be involved very
much so in those issues that you have outlined as a
member of the audience. From the people, by the
people, and for the people.
We move now to division reports. Mr. Tengan?
MR. TENGAN: Mr. Chair, we have included in
the back of the packet reports from the divisions. If
there is any questions, you can contact my office or
the deputy's office and we'll follow up on that.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Any questions?
MR. TENGAN: For the board's information, this
past week I did the three-month moving average for the
chlorides Iao Aquifer. According to the rule, if we
exceed certain levels of chloride at more than one of
the wellfields, then we would have to implement
certain management procedures. I'm happy to report to
the board that occasionally we have exceeded that
ceiling at Mokuhau, but never in any of the other
wells, so we're pretty much in compliance with the Iao
management rule.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Thank you, Mr. Tengan.
There being no further business, the meeting stands
adjourned.
(Whereupon, the meeting was adjourned at 9:42
a.m.)
Department of Water Supply
County of Maui
P.O. Box 1109
Wailuku, HI 96793-6109
Telephone (808) 270-7816
Fax (808) 270-7951