BOARD OF WATER SUPPLY
COUNTY OF MAUI
REGULAR BOARD MEETING
Held at the Kahului Shopping Center, Kaahumanu Avenue,
Kahului, Maui, Hawaii, commencing at 10:00 a.m. on
April 24, 2003, pursuant to Notice.
REPORTED BY: JEANNETTE WALTI IWADO RPR/CSR #135
IWADO COURT REPORTERS, INC.
A P P E A R A N C E S
BOARD MEMBERS: Michael Nobriga, Chair
Clark Hashimoto, Vice Chair
Stacy Helm Crivello
Kent M. Hiranaga
Kenneth M. Okumura
Ginny Parsons
Dorothy R. Pyle
Sally Raisbeck
Michael Victorino
Staff present: George Tengan Director
Jeffrey Pearson, Deputy Director
Herb Chang, Engineering
Ellen Kraftsow, Water Resourses and Planning
Bryce Fukuyama, Plant Operations
Robert Vida, Field Operations
Paul Seitz, Water Treatment Plant
Jacky Takakura Public Information Officer
Alva Nakamura, Engineering
Alan Murata, Engineering
Holly Perdido, Fiscal
Ed Kushi, Deputy Corporation Counsel
Cathy Howard, Board Secretary
IWADO COURT REPORTERS, INC.
TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
BOARD OF WATER SUPPLY
REGULAR MEETING
APRIL 24, 2003
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: I would like to convene the
Department of Water Supply regular meeting. We are at the
Kahului Shopping Center in the Board of Water Supply
conference room. In attendance we have board member Kent
Hiranaga, board member Kenneth Okumura, board member Clark
Hashimoto, board member Ginny Parsons, board member Mike
Victorino, which will be back momentarily, board member
Stacy Helm Crivello from the beautiful friendly island of
Molokai. We have board member Dorothy Pyle, board member
Sally Raisbeck, and myself, board chair Mike Nobriga. Also
in attendance we have Director George Tengan, Deputy
Director Jeff Pearson, Corporation Counsel Edward Kushi,
Junior, board secretary, Cathy Howard.
Announcements. Announcements? We never had
announcements before.
MS. HOWARD: Due to the change in the Sunshine
Law, the memo that we got from Corp Counsel, we have added
that in case you want to change the date of the meeting or
make any announcements if it's not -- if it is pertinent to
the board members.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Thanks, Cathy. Is there any
announcements, Mr. Director George Tengan?
MR. TENGAN: Mr. Chair, Ellen has some
announcements to make.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Thank you. Ellen, come up and
use the microphone. We're asking everyone to come forward
and use this microphone up here next to our court reporter.
We'd also like to ask everyone to turn off their cell
phones. Put their pagers on shake shake, please.
MS. KRAFTSOW: Actually, I thought this was to
go into the section at the end you have where they say
public interaction and stuff. But today the signing of the
state wide MOU for a statewide watershed partnership,
forest watershed partnership will be signed by the
governor.
Last Saturday we had a booth at the Earth Day
fair. We haven't finished entering all the data, but it
looks like we gave away on the order of 600 showerheads and
as many landscape brochures. This coming Saturday --
MS. RAISBECK: Mr. Chairman, I can't hear.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: I can't hear too.
MS. KRAFTSOW: Sorry. Okay, today the governor
is signing the statewide MOU for the watershed partnership
for statewide watershed partnership. Last Saturday we had
an Earth Day fair booth, and we haven't finished entering
the data, but it looks like we gave away about 600
showerheads and about as many landscape brochures.
This coming Saturday we'll have a booth at the
Efficiency Fair at Kaahumanu Center. There will also be
low-flow fixtures and brochures and some native plants to
give away, and displays. Also this coming Saturday at the
Ulupalakua Fair, we won't be there, but the Ho'olawa Farms
native plant booth will be giving away our brochures, and
that's all. That was just for the end of the meeting, the
public section. Sorry.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Thank you, Ellen. Any other
announcements?
For the board members, we will have a nomination
committee in June to elect officers at the July meeting.
Next on the agenda is the approval of minutes.
Under separate cover in your agenda package you will find
the minutes for our budget workshop on February 13, 2003,
the regular meeting of February 27, of 2003, and the
regular meeting of March 20, 2003. Motion is in order to
receive these minutes subject to a 30 day review, at which
time, if there are no corrections or additions, deletions,
the minutes shall be filed. Do I hear a motion?
MR. VICTORINO: So moved.
MR. HASHIMOTO: Second.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Moved by Mr. Victorino,
seconded by Clark Hashimoto. Any discussion? All those in
favor -- yes, Sally?
MS. RAISBECK: Mr. Chairman, in past years the
minutes included a machine index that had, you know, it was
several pages. It had every word that was in the minutes
with a page reference or page references. And this turns
out to be quite useful if you're sort of looking at past
minutes for a particular subject, because otherwise it's
difficult to find. And I would like to ask that the board
consider adding those. They aren't in the minutes that
were given out this time. They always were in the past.
So I was just wondering if we could have them.
MS. HOWARD: We have them, but I just didn't
copy them. If you need a copy of the index I'll send it to
you.
MS. RAISBECK: Okay, thank you. It turns out to
be very useful when you are looking through past minutes,
since they're so bulky.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Thank you, Sally. All those
in favor of the motions signify by saying "aye."
(A chorus of ayes).
Opposed, "nay."
(No response).
Motion carries. Testimony from the public. We
have a number of people wishing to testify on items before
the board this morning. Testimony from the public. I'm
asking everyone to come forward, use the microphone on the
table in front of here, and make sure the microphone is
on. The first person wishing to testify is Lester Yokote.
MR. YOKOTE: Good morning. My name is Lester
Yokote, and I'm here this morning to testify pertaining to
my request for water meters that we paid and received
reservations for. At this time I would like to tell you my
story related to my request for water meters.
In September of 1998, my wife Debby was
rear-ended and sustained severe injuries to her cervical
neck region. After undergoing treatment, her condition
still worsened, and in August of 2000 she had to underwent
surgery to correct a herniated disc, which also involved
the fusion of the bone. Then in November of 1998 I was
also rear-ended and suffered extensive injuries to my
neck. From the testing, I also suffered a herniated disc,
a traumatic brain injury, and fracture to my sinus area.
Due to these injuries, I had to undergo two neck
surgeries, which also involved bone fusion. I had to seek
treatment from my traumatic brain injury that also involved
the damaging of my sensory area. My doctor informed me at
this time that I was unable to continue any type of
farming, which our family has owned a carnation farm in
Kula.
Also then in October of 2000 I suffered another
accident where I was rear-ended again at 50 miles per hour,
and this was a hit-and-run accident. At this time I
suffered a collapsed colon, fractures to my back, fractures
to my sinus again, and I was sent to Stanford University in
California to see a neurosurgeon who specializes in
treatment for these kinds of injuries. My diagnosis again
showed that I could not farm. I underwent surgeries and
treatment to correct as much as I could.
Previous to these accidents my family and I
worked on a full-time -- on a part-time flower farm and
flower business which was family owned. We worked
full-time at our jobs, my wife at Wailea as an accountant,
and me as a psychologist for the Department of Education
Special Services. With our permanent injuries our doctors
told us we no longer can farm or do our florist business.
At this time the land is only being used for minimal
farming by my dad.
Now, due to these conditions, I had to go and
talk to the United States Department of Agriculture Farm
Service Agency. We were told to immediately concentrate
our efforts in trying to develop a family subdivision. My
father and I pledged our assets, life savings to develop
our farm. We received preliminary subdivision approval for
our family tract. We spoke to Mr. David Craddick in June
of 2002 for our water meters. Furthermore, we got
reassurance that with the new Po'okela Well being done and
developed, in all probability we would get our water
meters.
Then in December of 2002, after reading the good
news about the Po'okela Well being developed, we received a
letter to come in to reserve our water meters. It was a
long haul, we were waiting for this day. Then the day
before Christmas we were finally able to meet with Mr.
Craddick, who signed and authorized our reservation for six
water meters. Consequently, we paid the Department of
Water Supply, who cashed our check, and we later also
received a receipt for the reservation of the six water
meters.
Then in March of 2003, we received a letter from
Mr. George Tengan, and later our check was also returned to
us. Imagine the devastation that we felt at this time. I
had to go back to the United States Department of
Agriculture and let them know and notify them what is going
on with my property, because at this time they have the
mortgage. And I am unable to farm at this time, so I no
longer fit the rules or the requirements.
We have an opportunity at this time. We are
going to go into construction plans which has been
submitted for final approval and review. With this letter,
having our check returned and not being able to get the six
water meters, our family is facing financial hardship. At
this time I have also been diagnosed and classified by the
Americans with Disability Act 504 of being permanently
disabled. The United States Department of Agriculture can
no longer help us already. At this time we may be facing a
foreclosure.
Now, we have followed every rule that the County
of Maui has set forth. We have waited over a number of
years. We have met with the water director previously and
present. And I only can say right now I only hope that
compassion can be given to my case. We have tried
everything, and we hope and God pray that this issue can be
resolved. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Thank you, Mr. Yokote. Any
questions, members? Miss Parsons.
MS. PARSONS: Mr. Yokote, what number are you on
the Upcountry water meter list as it has been accepted.
MR. YOKOTE: At this time I'm number 112.
MS. PARSONS: And you are number 112. And in --
what was the date of the letter that was sent to you by Mr.
Tengan?
MR. YOKOTE: It was somewhere in the latter part
of March, at the last week of March, I believe.
MS. PARSONS: And in that letter did it denote
that there was more than one TMK or more than one
application for a water meter?
MR. YOKOTE: Yes.
MS. PARSONS: So you had another number as
well?
MR. YOKOTE: Yes, I believe it was in the high,
269 or somewhere around there.
MS. PARSONS: So you were 112 and 269. And were
they the same application? Did you change -- what I'm
asking you is, did you change your request from your first
112?
MR. YOKOTE: I don't think so, because it seems
like it was the first original six lot application.
MS. PARSONS: Okay.
MR. YOKOTE: I also did some checking homework
on myself, and going on the Internet, there seems to be a
lot of duplication at this time. And I couldn't
understand. It seems to me the list is not an accurate
list at all at this time.
MS. PARSONS: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Any other questions,
members? Kenneth.
MR. OKUMURA: Mr. Yokote, how come you ended up
paying -- I'm sort of new at this, but I was just
wondering, how come you ended up paying the deposit?
Everybody who signed up has to pay the deposit?
MR. YOKOTE: According to Mr. Craddick when he
signed, he gave me this paper and he said this is the
signature that shows the reservation for meters. You can
come in and put your name for a meter, but it only gets you
the information on the list. But consequently you have to
make a payment and they will cash it, and you have a
receipt back, and that was all done for me.
Taking that information back to the United
States Department of Agriculture, they released the land,
you know, from their Washington office. So at this time I
am being held responsible. And also along with the
financing that we incurred to get the subdivision going.
We have the preliminary approval already also, too.
Construction plans are going on.
So receiving a letter like this brings me right
down to a total financial collapse, you know, of my plans.
You know, and being disabled I can no longer farm, so the
United States Department of Agriculture cannot help me
anymore. So that's the reason.
MR. OKUMURA: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Clark?
MR. HASHIMOTO: For your agricultural ventures
at that current location what size meters did you have?
MR. YOKOTE: Five-eighths.
MR. HASHIMOTO: Only five-eighths meters?
MR. YOKOTE: Only five-eighths meters.
MR. HASHIMOTO: I was thinking if you had larger
meters you could downsize, but just five-eighths.
MR. YOKOTE: Just five-eighths.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Miss Parsons?
MS. PARSONS: You said that you did see Mr.
Tengan, you saw Mr. Craddick and Mr. Tengan regarding the
subject. Did Mr. Tengan give you a reason why he returned
your money.
MR. YOKOTE: Well, at this time I'm still a
little confused as to why. I didn't really get a real
explanation. But he did say that he is going to try and
help me on the Po'okela Well. But I thought the Po'okela
Well was on to be used already at this time. According to
the press, it was that the Po'okela Well was being
developed, you know, so that's my understanding.
My confusion in this whole total thing is I
talked to Mr. Tengan is that the check was cashed already.
And I have taken that to the United States Department of
Agriculture and they're holding me on that. So I'm really
at this time, you know, I don't know how to explain it any
more further, because I was given the okay, you know.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Thank you. Miss Pyle.
MS. PYLE: I'm just confused because I'm new at
this too. Perhaps we can have an explanation from Mr.
Tengan about what the department's policies are or have
been in the past. You know, I don't know. Does everyone
deposit money, are all the checks cashed, is that meant to
be a sign that this is absolutely approved? I don't know,
and I just would kind of like a little bit of additional
information. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Mr. Tengan?
MR. TENGAN: Mr. Chair, I wouldn't mind
answering the question, but the concern I have is is this
an appropriate time to discuss this matter? Because we
will be discussing the Po'okela Well on item Director's
Report 03-07.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Is this like a specific
instance that would need to be like separately agendaed or
could we discussed that?
MR. KUSHI: Mr. Chair, if I may, I believe the
Director is saying that he can answer procedural questions
under your Director's Report 03-07. What this guy,
Mr. Yokote is testifying I'm assuming is on that matter,
because his item is not on the agenda. So the procedural
generic process I think it's better to discuss it at that
time.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Thank you. Any other
questions for the testifier? Thank you, Mr. Yokote.
Oh, I'm sorry, Sally, Miss Raisbeck.
MS. RAISBECK: Thank you. I just wanted to say
that I would really prefer this to be an agenda item say
next meeting where we could have copies, you know, we could
be provided with copies of the documentation that you
received and a statement of policy from the Director. We
could have something on paper to go on, because four of us
are brand new at this, haven't been on the board before,
and to understand your -- I mean I understand your concern,
it's a very great financial hardship for you, but I'd like
to be able to have more information in front of me on
paper, you know, to ask questions about. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Thank you, Miss Raisbeck.
Thank you, Mr. Yokote. The next testifier will be Carol
Dickson.
MS. DICKSON: Good morning. My name is Carol
Dickson. I'm here out of frustration. Our application for
a family subdivision in 1993 was deferred because of lack
of water. Placed on a priority list as number 80. Ten
years later we are 176 and holding. After meetings and
promises in 2002, we were informed water was available and
that the priority listed people were the first in line to
get water and meters, and this was forthcoming.
My surveyor received a letter from the water
department and I went to the water department and put a
deposit on meters, or water, or just to get on, to get the
money in there, and they refused to take my money. They
said they weren't receiving anything. That things have
changed and the new mayor was on -- everything was on
hold.
So here it is April 2003, and no one will give
me any information if there will be any water coming. And
in the meantime, I wonder how others got meters and are
building around me. Is there water? Is all the water
going, gone? No one has the answers and I sit and I wait
and things get more expensive. And I hear the mayor say,
"Affordable housing, oh, we've got to attack this
problem." Well, I have three boys that cannot build. I am
in a cottage; my son, one of -- my oldest son is in my
house, and we're waiting for meters so that somebody can
get affordable housing.
Is this another ten-year wait with no
information, or what? Is there anybody that has the answer
for us? I'd like to know. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Thank you, Miss Dickson. Any
questions, members, of the testifier? Miss Parsons.
MS. PARSONS: Hi, Carol. Did you say you had
your money returned? Were you one of the --
MS. DICKSON: They refused to take it. They
said they were not accepting any money.
MS. PARSONS: And when was this?
MS. DICKSON: Let's see, when did we get that?
I don't have the date here.
MS. PARSONS: Approximately when, was it this
year?
MS. DICKSON: Last year.
MS. PARSONS: Last year. Do you remember --
MS. DICKSON: It was soon after the last meeting
that we had here and the water was available, and it seemed
like everybody got notices. It went to my surveyor, I just
didn't get it. I have changed addresses several times and
I do believe I might have gotten one, but it went to
California and was sent back. But I did speak to the girl
in the water department and they said that the letters were
stopped. There was not going to be a follow-up on that
letter until the mayor made some kind of a decision.
MS. PARSONS: So this was the end of December,
the very end of December?
MS. DICKSON: I'm not sure.
MS. PARSONS: When you say that you've moved and
that you're not there, are you still the owner on the TMK?
Are you on the tax for the Department of Finance, can they
find you to send you your tax bills?
MS. DICKSON: Oh, yes, yes.
MS. PARSONS: So they have an address, right?
MS. DICKSON: Yes.
MS. PARSONS: So if our department really wanted
to find you they could do a search in the department.
MS. DICKSON: Oh, yes. And if I didn't get it my
son would get it, because he's on the property.
MS. PARSONS: He'l also on the property, but is
he on the tax bill?
MS. DICKSON: He is a a co-owner.
MS. PARSONS: Co-owner.
MS. DICKSON: Yes.
MS. PARSONS: So when the tax bill comes it does
have your name on it and it has the correct address that
you can be reached.
MS. DICKSON: Yes.
MS. PARSONS: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Any other questions? Miss
Pyle.
MS. PYLE: I'm still a little confused, and it's
going to be so for a few months, I guess. I'm wondering
where are we on this agenda? She's testifying, and I'm
happy to hear what you have to say, but what agenda item
does this apply to?
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: This is public testimony.
She's testifying on the agenda item -- which one?
MS. PARSONS: The Upcountry priority list.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: The Upcountry priority list,
which is item C.
MS. PYLE: It would really help us newcomers
here if when people came forward to testify, if they cannot
themselves tell us where they fit into this agenda, if
perhaps the Chair would like to do that for us at least for
a little while until we pick up where we're supposed to
be. Otherwise, it's really confusing, because we just
don't know, you know, I don't know where you live, I don't
know any of that kind of information. You may have
testified before and brought information like that. So you
have to forgive us for our lack of knowledge. Thank you
very much, Mr. Chair.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Any other questions, members,
of the testifier? Mr. Okumura.
MR. OKUMURA: You made a statement that one time
you were 80 on the list. What year was that?
MS. DICKSON: See, we put in for a family
subdivision. It's a two-acre parcel and it's up on the
Lower Kula and Omaopio, around the corner there. I wanted
to subdivide it so that I could give my children a piece of
property to build. We were put on hold for the subdivision
because of the lack of water. Now, this is ten years
later, and it's started up again because the water became
available.
MR. OKUMURA: I just wanted to know, you made a
statement that in 1980 you were number something and then
what?
MS. DICKSON: Oh, yes, yes. When we were put on
the priority list we were number 80. I remember being told
number 80.
MR. OKUMURA: What year, what year was this?
MS. DICKSON: 1993. And now we were informed we
are 176. And I don't know how we got, you know, put to
rest back there, but I still can't even get a response as
to if I'm going to get the meters or not.
MR. OKUMURA: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Miss Raisbeck.
MS. RAISBECK: Mr. Chair, I think as new members
it would be very helpful to us to have a chronology of
lists and the reasons why people were denied at different
times and then what happened to the list. I vaguely
remember that in 1994 there was a new list created, but I
don't have any of those details. And especially for those
of us who are new, if we had a chronology that told us
about different lists, different situations as far as water
availability, and we could sort of slot people when they
come to us, and I'm sure there will be many more.
And I really apologize for the hardship this
causes people, that when they come to us we can sort of
say, oh, that was when the department had this policy and
was doing that, and that was when the water was especially
low, and follow what they're saying in terms of department,
of the water situation and department rules and regs at
that particular time. That would be very helpful for us.
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Thank you, Miss Raisbeck.
Next testifier will be Audrey Antone Blaak about water
meter priority lists, item B and C on our agenda. Miss
Blaak comes from Makawao and Haiku area of East Maui.
MS. BLAAK: Actually, Kaupakalua.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Which has been very --
MS. BLAAK: In the area of Koakomo, which is now
called Kokomo, but was anciently called Koakomo when the
koa forest started and you entered Koakomo in the koa
forest.
Aloha and good morning. My name is Audrey
Antone Blaak. Number one, information is knowledge, and
knowledge is power. There is one copy today of a letter
that was dated April 24, 2003, which -- is it today or
yesterday? That is signed by Mr. George Tengan, that is
not available to anybody here in the audience except those
of us that fought over the one copy. I think it's page
number 17 on your handout. And I think for the public's
information, this letter is saying that based on findings,
the Director feels the department can proceed with the
reservations for water meters, and respectfully requests
the board's concurrence. I am assuming this means that we
will go forward on the waiting list.
I have copies actually of every waiting list
from the beginning, so if that ever is not found in your
archives, I will gladly provide it for you. The
discrepancies is unbelievable, unbelievable. People
appeared on the list mysteriously, mysteriously, and oddly
enough some of the names are tied to real estate
salespeople.
Number two -- sorry, I get nervous when I talk.
Unbelievable after all this time, yeah? Okay, Number two,
I have been talking about the rural utility service, and
I'll actually at this time say that I can provide this
information later. But Ted Matsuo is located on the Big
Island of Hawaii, and he is in charge of the USDA, which
last year provided grants, loans to states and countries,
including Alabama with $30 million, Puerto Rico with $60
million, Texas with $57 million, and the State of Hawaii
was provided with $2 million.
I think it's a travesty that we are not using
federal funds that is available. And Mr. Matsuo is on the
Big Island; he was out on a vacation. Also there is an
agency that we are not a part of, Hawaii, the State of
Hawaii is one of the few states in the entire nation that
does not belong to this Rural Community Assistance
Program. This is all available on-line. We have no
association with them. They meet yearly, they go to all the
federal funds available, they give each other references,
they give each other help. We are one of the few states --
and again, I'll provide this information later -- that's
not even affiliated with this association. They have
conferences, workshops.
There was a woman who was on the water board
several years ago who did gain federal money which is now
being reserved, the 80 water meters that you see reserved
up in Haiku. I can't remember her name.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Natalie.
MS. BLAAK: Natalie Powell. She was a board
member and she got federal money for the street that she
lived on. And they are now installing 80 water meters on
that street that was federal money that she got while she
was a board member.
So anyway, at this time I'd like to ask to
please make copies available of what you put on the -- as
we enter that you have, because I'd be willing to pay for
it, honestly, if this information was available to me so I
could study it. This has all the information on the
Po'okela Well, what they found, et cetera, et cetera. And
believe me, you know, waiting ten years for a water meter,
if I am going to spend 20 bucks on information that's going
to help me, I'll be more than glad to spend it. Because
that water meter is gold, and every single person in this
room knows that. That water meter is worth hundreds of
thousands of dollars to these families.
And I know, and I suffer with every one of you
that comes before the board, because our life has been on
hold for ten years too. We have everything, we have our
zoning, we have our water lines, we have our fire hydrants,
we have everything in place, and our six acres has five
horses on it.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Thank you, Miss Blaak.
Members, any questions for the testifier? Miss Parsons.
MS. PARSONS: What number are you currently on
our list?
MS. BLAAK: I knew you would ask me that. If I
go through my records, I believe I am 257. I should know
that by heart.
MS. PARSONS: Do you know your TMK offhand?
MS. BLAAK: It ends in 26. Wait, I have it.
MS. PARSONS: What number did you think you
were,.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: 257.
MS. PARSONS: 257? It ends in 37?
MS. BLAAK: 246, 246.
MS. PARSONS: Do you have the first numbers of
it?
MS. BLAAK: 2-7-02026.
MS. PARSONS: I have the list in alphabetical
order and I have got them about three different ways, so I
do have it in TMK order. 2-7 --
MS. BLAAK: 02026. That's the two-acre parcel.
My brothers and sisters, we have three two-acre parcels,
and we're zoned rural.
MS. PARSONS: 02 --
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: 27-02026.
MS. BLAAK: 2 dash 7 -- actually, it's -- when
you go on the Internet they add that extra zero,
2-7-002026.
MS. PARSONS: Okay. Number 247 on the list.
And you came in in 1997 with a subdivision, correct?
MS. BLAAK: Yes. Well, no, see, we never
applied for a subdivision because we knew at that time that
water was not available. So we had gone back to our
original zoning, which was zoned rural in 19 -- when my dad
bought the property I think it was 1953 or '52, somewhere
around there. Our original zoning was rural.
And this is a long story that many of you
probably don't want to hear, but the State of Hawaii did
change the zoning in the area in which we live to ag
without notifying any of the landowners in that area. We
bought property state-zoned rural, as did many other
landowners, paid taxes on it, and the property was changed,
the zoning was changed to agriculture in 1969 without
notifying any of the landowners. So when I went before the
County Council we got our zoning changed back to rural.
Sorry that was the history.
MS. PARSONS: No, that's all right. So you're
really not a subdivision, you're just asking for how many
meters?
MS. BLAAK: We are asking for meters so we can
begin our application for subdivision. It's ridiculous.
Like many of these people, to apply for your subdivision
when there's no water available you are going to incur all
these expenses.
MS. PARSONS: How many meters are you asking
for?
MS. BLAAK: I'm asking for two additional meters
because I want to do a subdivision to give my daughter a
piece of land.
MS. PARSONS: So you're only asking for two
meters?
MS. BLAAK: Yes.
MS. PARSONS: And have you downloaded -- you
have all the lists. Have you downloaded the list off the
Internet that gives you the TMK's in order? Because you
can go either way on it. You can get a listing that's just
got them in numerical order as you apply to the list.
MS. BLAAK: I have gone into each tax map key,
and I hope it's not snooping on other people's business,
but I have gone into each individual tax map key and found
the owners and the acreage.
MS. PARSONS: Okay. When you download the list
-- now I am just going -- one of the things that I have
here you will see duplication. So one of the things we
probably need do is weed out. I mean you may not be 247,
you may be 99. I mean --
MS. BLAAK: Well, you know, I believe in
fairness. And in all honesty I really do believe that
whoever is on the list ahead of me, if they are there
properly I believe that they should get the water first. I
really truly believe that, because I know how hard it has
been waiting since 1997. So if somebody has been waiting
since 1993, they should get water meters first.
But I just feel that there has been -- there has
been changes made to the list, and I think this was
something that a company was hired to look into. So I
don't understand why this is happening when there was a
legal firm, I believe Mr. Tengan, last year that was hired,
am I not correct? Wasn't there a legal firm that was hired
to look over the list and confirm that it was accurate?
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: There was an audit done by a
CPA firm.
MS. BLAAK: Right. Did that also involve the
way it was listed, the priority?
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: No, not all, just the first.
MS. BLAAK: So maybe the problem that we are
going to address as a county, as a board, as the mayor and
the councilmembers is how are you going to verify? You
know, that to me would seem like a real problem. How are
you going to verify who, you know, who was on the list
legally?
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: That will be part of our
deliberations today.
MS. BLAAK: Okay. I don't want to --
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Thank you. Any other
questions of the testifier? Miss Raisbeck.
MS. RAISBECK: Could you give me the name of
that rural utility service you were describing, what's the
name?
MS. BLAAK: Okay, it's on-line. And it's -- the
federal government has only one office on the Big Island,
and the person in charge is Ted Matsuo, and it's called
Rural Utilities Service. You can go on-line under USDA
Rural Utilities Service. But his -- should I give you his
phone number or his email?
MS. RAISBECK: Sure.
MS. BLAAK: Email, Ted.matsuo@hawaii.usda.gov.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Thank you, Miss Blaak. Any
other questions from the members of the testifier? Thank
you. We will take a five minute recess.
(Whereupon a brief recess was taken).
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: We will reconvene the
meeting, thank you. The next testifier will be Dionne,
Diane -- Miss Gannon. Miss Gannon will be talking about
Upcountry water meters items C and D on your agenda. She
lives in Wailuku.
MS. GANNON: Hi, my name is Dionne Gannon, I
live in Wailuku. We have been on the wait -- the priority
list since '98, 1998, and I think right now we're at 289.
And we're also listed at 298, and we're also listed at
another number. So the list is just totally bull. I mean
there's people on there that's probably shouldn't be on
there. There's probably, you know, I mean I'm 289 but who
knows, maybe I'm 150 or something. I have no idea. And
oh, it's just really frustrating. I don't even know where
to begin.
On January 10th of this year I called and talked
to a Herb Kogasaka, he's with the water department, and I
asked him for a date, if he could at least tell me are we
talking about months, years, what, when they will issue
meters from that Po'okela Well. And he told me a
conservative figure would be six months. That means I
expect my meter by June, or maybe by next month, how about
that? Can anybody tell me if that's true? No, nobody else
can tell me anything.
I called somebody else in the water department
and it's like oh, yeah, maybe six months from a year from
now, but not six months from January, and it's like our
whole family is on hold. We have land up there that's in
my brother-in-law's name because we couldn't subdivide it,
so our grandma had to -- she just signed over the whole
property to my brother-in-law, so now everything is in his
name. If something happens to him, if somebody sues him or
something he could lose that land, and that's partly ours.
We cannot build, we can't put it in our name because we
can't subdivide. Why? Because we can't get water.
My son is going to be a sophomore in high
school, and our name was on the list from when he was in
the fifth grade. So he may not even be able -- be able to
live with us in this house that we are going to build one
day. And it just really upsets me because we're sitting
waiting for water and nobody can tell us anything. I mean
we meet with the Director; he can't give us an answer.
It's like, "We will get back to you." And it's like when,
when are you going to get back to us? We're sitting here
waiting. It's not a priority for you, but it is for us.
And regarding the issuing of that extra 300
thousand gallons, or whatever of water, you know, I call
and it's like, Oh, we issued 30 letters so far, the first
30 on the list. So it's like, okay. And two months later
I call back, "Oh, we have issued maybe about 60 letters so
far." 60 letters in five months? Give me a break. In
that case it would take over two years for you to ever get
to number 200 on the list, or whatever. That's
ridiculous.
Everybody on this list should get a letter and
just say meters are available and it's up to the person,
you have 60 days or whatever, to come in and show you own
the land, you're ready for your meter or whatever you're
going to pay for it. If you're going to take five months
to issue 60 letters and there's hundreds of people waiting,
that would just take too long. We want our meters like
this year. I mean I want my meter by the summer of this
year. I am tired of waiting.
The guy told me six months. I expected it in
June, unless somebody can tell me otherwise. So I think
something needs to be done. I don't know if this board can
recommend that meters be issued from the Po'okela Well. I
mean the well is there, you know there's water in there
available. Just get on it, issue meters. You know there's
water there. There's no reason to make us wait years more
so that you can put in the pond, you can do this and that.
Just issue the meters, you know there's water. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Thank you. Members, any
questions for the testifier? Miss Parsons.
MS. PARSONS: Dionne, I have your TMK here. You
are number 90, 299 and 569. Was there any change? I mean
there was a submission originally. Was there any change at
any time with the number of meters you were requesting in
any one of those three positions?
MS. GANNON: No, no, there was just one request.
MS. PARSONS: And you were asking for how many
meters?
MS. GANNON: One.
MS. PARSONS: One extra meter?
MS. GANNON: Right.
MS. PARSONS: In those three?
MS. GANNON: Yes.
MS. PARSONS: Thank you very much.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Any other questions? Thank
you. The next testifier will be Mr. Dudley De Ponte.
Dudley will be testifying on items C and D on the agenda.
Dudley has been before this body before. And he lives in
Kula and formerly on Crater Road. Mr. De Ponte.
MR. DE PONTE: I'm Sherman Dudley De Ponte,
licensed professional land surveyor. I was taken by the
last person here, and I have got to collect myself a little
bit. I listen to a lot of this on a daily basis because I
deal with subdivisions, that's what a surveys does. I
personally am involved on one of these because up on Crater
Road from 1992 when I bought the property, after I
purchased the property this was after, shortly after I went
into the department to find out, you know, what was the
fire protection. What would it take for me to subdivide if
I had to subdivide for my kids. Because I bought property
that was rural, half acre rural, and at the time there was
no question about it. If you have any questions, that's
another story.
In any case, at the time I met with Herb Chang,
definite name, with an engineer of mine, Stacy Otomo,
another definite name, a prominent engineer in the county.
We discussed what it would take. He said fire protection.
To get fire protection you need to cross across this one
property where the line is like a two-and-a-half inch line,
fire protection.
Okay, I said, "Well, how much is that going to
be, Stacy?" He said, "Well, we're looking at about $50,000
to $80,000 to improve that line to make it to fire
protection." I said, "Well, I just put all my life savings
on this property here in Kula so that I can have something
for my kids later on 20 years down the line. I don't have
$50,000 to be throwing right at that." Okay, so I said,
"Well, I'm going to have to wait" and I went through the
waiting process, 1992 until whenever. Until now, still
waiting.
About 1999, 1998-99 I noticed that there was a
list building up for the water meters. So I decided to
throw my name on the list so that I could get my meters,
because I figured man, I'm doing all this subdivision and
people are waiting for meters. I'd better put out for my
meter because there's no, you know, what am I going to get
in the future? And I said, if it's going to take ten years
I'd better get on it, you know. Hopefully I can be a
little bit sooner because they're saying, oh, they're
finding more water sources and we might be able to do this
a little bit faster.
Okay, I'm feeling a little bit more comfortable
with fixing this $50,000 piece of line, but yet in the back
of my mind I'm going, well, this subdivision was done in
1945 and now I've got a definite date from Mr. Tengan. In
1945 a county engineer, accepted 1948. I've got the
depository declaration in here to the county engineer. And
it makes it really beautiful that also all the lines are
supposed to be maintained now by the county and brought up
to fire protection, because I believe that's the law.
We're supposed to be fire protected by the county.
The next thing that happens is I get into a
meeting with these guys that is we are talking about a more
accountable administration here. What is accountable about
this administration when Mr. Tengan right here cannot
answer a single question, or he don't want to answer
because it's about a Po'okela Well? Come on, we're locals
here. Born and raised here. I know the ship my
great-grandfather came on, you know. We have been around
here awhile. Baloney.
I told him the other day this is what you would
call shibai, which is bullshit in Japanese. He took it
personal, and I had an attack from him. Will we deny
that?
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Mr. Dudley, please get back
to your testimony. Thank you.
MR. DE PONTE: It goes onto the CIP's. There's
a CIP. We want to know how did it get there, how it gets
in there, what's going on with it. What design is on the
CIP for a certain line, a certain area. We have $300,000
for the CIP for Haleakala Acres. $300,000. The way they
want me to put the line now, they gave me a curve ball.
They want the line to go around the switch-back, which
we're talking a lot more feet, a lot more money. Just to
put that line in we're looking at over $300,000 okay.
But then they throw a curve in. The new thing
is going to -- the new requirements is going to be for an
8-inch line instead of a 6-inch line that is in place. Not
only changing that 2-inch line. And not only that, let's
see, our fire protection will need 120,000 gallons. Your
water tank on the top there has only 50,000 gallons, so now
we've got to add another what, 70,000 gallons, $2 a gallon,
$140,000 on that. And all this 8-inch line now got to be
put in up to my driveway, up to my house, plus my
infrastructure. This is what gets added on to me.
My dreams and hopes for my kids is down the
tubes because there's no way. That amounts to several
million dollars we're talking about. I gave him several
reasons why it shouldn't go around the curve. I said,
there's solid blue stone for digging. It's not going to
work. Federal highway, this is the road that goes up to
the crater, so putting it across the road, putting in
action blocks, crisscrossing that road is not feasible.
It's going to stop traffic. You cannot work it at night,
you cannot do it during the day because you're going to be
stopping major traffic going up to the national park.
Also, cost. That's not good enough. Okay,
there is a two-and-a-half inch water line that is holding
back the pumps just to change that line. They want me to
do the research that I found, that we have legitimate that
we can go through that easement.
They said, "Oh, it's a two-and-a-half inch
line. You cannot throw an 8-inch line into a
two-and-a-half inch line now because that owner will not
like it." Well, I don't know about you guys, but I do
this, again, on a daily basis. When I put together an
easement for over a property, a sewer easement, water
easement, drainage easement, we don't go, oh, there is a
72-inch drainage easement or a 4-inch sewer easement and
that's it, 4-inch sewer line easement. It's stated sewer
easement so in case that lines needs to be replaced or
whatever it can be brought up to standard, the standards
that we are getting thrown at us.
I'm hoping here, and on my coming forward, is I
would like the department to be a little bit more
accountable. As you can see, I get frustrated, I'm mad,
you know, direct or whatever. But after listening to the
people over here coming forth in front of you and talking
to you, I have been in front of you as a board, when you
were a board. Now you are an advisory committee. My
advice to you is advise. Advise the mayor that we need
help in that department to be more accountable and get
somebody that will stand forward and do something for us,
the people that voted for him to get in there. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Thank you, Mr. De Ponte.
Questions, members? Mr. Victorino.
MR. VICTORINO: Mr. De Ponte, is it possible to
get copies of that 1945 memorandum?
MR. DE PONTE: Yes, I will give you copies of
that.
MR. VICTORINO: We would like that. And has Mr.
Tengan and the department been provided those papers?
MR. DE PONTE: Yes. I will be putting together a
report also showing why the engineering would be better to
come down, you know, between the lots and all that.
MR. VICTORINO: And then this is a comment, not
a question, and I say this in all sincerity. I understand
your frustration, I understand all the peoples'
frustrations. But also name-calling and getting upset
publicly only tends -- brings out emotional and then
sometimes not the facts. If we can stay with the facts,
ladies and gentlemen, it helps us to make good decisions,
okay. I understand the frustrations, like you, born and
raised here. We know the problems that exist, but that
doesn't change the problem. The problem can be only
changed if we can get the facts and work together to find
reasonable and fair solutions. So thank you, Mr. De Ponte,
I do appreciate your comments.
MR. DE PONTE: I apologize if there was a
name-calling. I want a specific name so you understand you
can go to that specific person and ask if him if I'm
telling baloney or whatever.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Thanks, Mr. De Ponte. Any
other questions, members? Thank you, Mr. De Ponte. The
next testifier will be Nancy -- I cannot read your last
name.
MS. HOEFFKEN: Hoeffken.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Hoeffken, thank you. Miss
Hoeffken will be speaking to item B, and she lives in
Kula. Thank you, Miss Hoeffken.
MS. HOEFFKEN: Hi, I'm Nancy Hoeffken and --
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Turn on the mike. Thank you.
MS. HOEFFKEN: Oh, here we go. Hi, everybody.
My name is Nancy Hoeffken, I live on 651 Papipi Road. We
used to be Ahinahina, but the county decided that my road
name should be Papipi these days.
We have five acres of an 18-acre parcel. We
have owned this land approximately -- excuse me, but I just
found out about this meeting late last night and I don't
have everything together that I would have normally, but I
believe we bought the property in '77 or '78. We have been
trying to subdivide since that time. The people we bought
the property from promised us that they would try to
subdivide, they were going to take care of the
subdivision.
The reason we wanted two pieces, we just wanted
to subdivide our 5-acre parcel from the 13 acres on the
other side. A gulch divides our property. 13 acres is on
the side of Calasa Road. My five acres is a paper road.
It used to be called Homestead Road, okay. We are right
below Kula School.
Now, hallelujah, I have been offered a water
meter. However, there's a big, long string attached that's
choking my neck, and it's about turning me blue with my
tongue hanging out. I couldn't get this water meter
because of the fact that there needs to be $1.2 million
worth of improvements. Now, how do I know that? Okay, you
might think I'm a little crazy. Well, most people do, but
that's all right. The reason I know it's $1.2 million is
my husband looked at the improvements.
Now, who is my husband? My husband is Tom's
Backhoe and Excavation Company. We do this for a living.
We put water lines in for a living. We do road
improvements, we do all kinds of major excavation. In
fact, we're doing a federal job up on Haleakala putting in
a big septic system for the federal government right now.
Granted, we're not poor people, but I can't
afford $1.2 million worth of improvements, you know. I
have been trying to subdivide this property, and again,
it's just like everybody else, for my children. I want the
property in our name. When my kids were in college -- and
I have been very lucky, I have got four kids, three of them
are graduated with degrees. But when my kids were in
college I couldn't even take a loan out on my property
because it wasn't subdivided. It's not in my name, it's a
hui. I don't think this is fair.
We've been trying to subdivide for years and
years and years. We have gotten deferred for years and
years and years. Who can afford all this money to get a
water meter? It's totally unfair, and I think it should be
looked at again, and I would appreciate if someone would
help. Thank you for you time, I really appreciate it.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Thank you, Miss Hoeffken.
Board members, any questions of the testifier? Miss
Raisbeck.
MS. RAISBECK: Mr. Chairman, I just wanted to
ask the testifier, are you aware that four of us are new,
and waivers of rules are something that we aren't yet
familiar with, what waivers would be allowed, what waivers
aren't allowed. Furthermore, the whole situation has
changed now because the water board is only advisory, and
changes in the rules would have to go through a process.
They need change, but they need to go through a process.
So that everybody here needs to be aware that
the change in the charter, and also I would say personally
the departure of the previous water director and the
changeover to a new administration of a water director and
the mayor, with other rights of the council, this has
complicated the issue of how do we make the rules more fair
to the people who are experiencing such frustration.
MS. HOEFFKEN: The biggest problem with this is
that the water meter now has to be placed on the property.
To be placed on property, and it says to come down Calasa
Road. And the old water lines, because Calasa is -- we
have got blue rock up there, you know, in Kula, and because
the old water line came right on top of the road, you
know. But now, according to this, we have to bury it.
So that not only means digging with a backhoe,
that means blasting or digging with a hoe ram. Our hoe ram
rents minimum $1,000 a day. And you figure you're going to
need many, many days of hoe ram work. No matter what
company you get to try to do this, it's going to be very,
very expensive. And I feel for everybody who has been
trying to get their land subdivided.
Thank you, and I'd like to go along with the
rules, but I have to figure out where they are and how they
affect me.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Miss Parsons.
MS. PARSONS: Hi, how are you?
MS. HOEFFKEN: Hi.
MS. PARSONS: You were asking for just one
meter, is that correct?
MS. HOEFFKEN: We were given one meter, but we
can't take it because they asked us to do all these
improvements. We don't have the money to do that.
MS. PARSONS: I have a copy of your letter, so I
have read your letter. Did you speak to the department
directly when you got this letter, did you call the
department?
MS. HOEFFKEN: I've spoken with engineers on and
off, and the engineer that I spoke to said, "Well, a lot of
people want to get water meters there. Why don't you just
go and gather all these people and see how much each one
will be willing to pay, and then petition the water
department to come in and maybe give you back some of your
money." That's what I -- that's the scenario I was given.
And it's just -- it's just come at a time where
the people we own the land with are in bankruptcy, so that
puts another, you know, it's just a hardship. And we just
looked at this, we threw up our hands in disgust and went,
"Oh, well, what's new," you know.
MS. PARSONS: Did you discuss with any of the
engineers if there's any CIP, which is where we're
preparing to correct lines -- well, let me first ask you,
could you read 2-A out of your letter for the board to
hear?
MS. HOEFFKEN: My letter on what they gave me?
MS. PARSONS: Yeah. Read number 2 on the letter
that you received. This may help some.
MS. HOEFFKEN: Now I've got to get my glasses
out, hold on.
MS. PARSONS: I'm sorry.
MS. HOEFFKEN: This is what we have to do.
"2. Construct water system improvements for the
subdivision. The improvements consist of the following:
A. The existing water system is inadequate in
providing water service and fire protection. Construct
off-site improvements to provide adequate flow and pressure
for water service and fire protection. Off-site water
improvements shall consist of approximately 5,000 feet of
six-inch water line along Calasa Road, and approximately
1,500 feet of six-inch water line along the Homestead
Road. A pressure break tank will be required along Calasa
Road."
"B. Provide water service to each lot in
accordance with standards. Relocate the existing meter to
the subdivision site." We have a meter that is now with
about five other meters on Ahinahina Place. "The
subdivider shall deliver to the department perpetual
easements required for the water system improvements within
private property and the Homestead Road. The subdivider
shall convey to the department fee simple title to all
sites on which tanks or pumps are constructed."
Now, this, that kills me, because they never did
anything to me, for me, and they want my land. "All
improvements shall conform to the department standards.
Note that these requirements may change as new standards
may be adopted shortly."
MS. PARSONS: Now, my question prior to that
was, when you talked to the engineer did you discuss with
the engineer any improvements that might be going on in
your area and in the near future?
MS. HOEFFKEN: From what he said, they had no
improvements scheduled in my immediate area.
MS. PARSONS: Okay. Now, you received this
letter. Would you have preferred to have met personally
with the department to determine a solution rather than
receive a letter like this? I mean if there's questions
that you needed to do something and the department is aware
of it, would you have just preferred to have had a meeting
in there and looked to see what was going on, and discuss
maybe what you could do to ask for improvements to be
considered in your area maybe sooner?
MS. HOEFFKEN: Yeah, sure. I mean we just want
our property in our name. My husband and I aren't local
people, we're kamaaina, but we're kamaaina. We celebrated
our 30th anniversary of coming to Maui January 18, 2002.
30 years here. We came with $600. My husband and I have
worked hard. We do have quite a bit of property on Maui.
But like I said, I couldn't even get a loan on my property
to send my kids to college, and I would have appreciated
being able to do that. Luckily we didn't need that and I
got my kids through college without it.
But it's been a long time since I have owned
this property and, you know, I would like subdivision so
the TMK can be in our name. And I'm just asking for one T
-- you know, two TMK's to be separated. They have theirs,
and we have ours. It's just a subdivision in two parcels.
Thank you for your time, I appreciate all your concern.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Thank you, Mrs. Hoeffken.
The last person signing up to testify is Leslie Blair, but
you have a -- it's going to come up on the agenda.
MS. BLAIR: I'll wait.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Thank you. Anyone else in the
audience that testified -- that had not signed up to
testify that would like to? Yes, sir.
MR. UWEKOOLANI: Yes, my name is William --
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Please come forward and sit
on the chair, put on the microphone, and talk inside.
MR. UWEKOOLANI: My name is William Moanalia
Uwekoolani. My name is William Moanalia Uwekoolani, and I'm
here on behalf of Dorothy Uwekoolani. We have been trying
to get that meter for so long, I even forget how many years
went by. And from what I heard, and I took Mr. Chang
horseback and showed him every meter was up there. So he
knew where the meters was. And then he denied us after.
And then other people moved in and they started getting
meters. And I went through like about seven trucks hauling
water back and forth. So I am just here for Dorothy
Uwekoolani, because I live up there too. And so I got to
get back work, so thank you.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: I am very familiar with your
plight, as well as Dorothy's plight in terms of trying to
get water to that area. Thank you very much, thank you.
We will move to the regular meeting agenda item
VI, Director's Reports. Item A, Director's Report 03-05,
update on the emergency drought status. Mr. Tengan?
MR. TENGAN: Mr. Chair, I have prepared a report
on the drought status. At the time we prepared the report
the reservoirs were at 78 percent capacity. But due to the
recent rain last week the reservoirs are nearly full, and I
believe the Wailoa ditch is running at about 90 some-odd
percent of capacity.
However, I would like the board to retain the
status quo as far as the emergency drought is concerned.
Both the Hamakuapoko wells are down, they're inoperable.
Repairs are being made to it.
MS. RAISBECK: I can't hear you, George, sorry.
MR. TENGAN: Okay, I'll start all over,
Mr. Chair. As my report states, at the time it was
prepared the reservoirs were at 98 percent capacity.
However, during the past week, because of the rains we've
had up there, the reservoirs are nearly full, and the
Wailoa ditch is running at about 90 some-odd percent of
capacity.
Although the conditions have improved over the
past week, I would like the board to take no action on the
emergency drought that was declared last year. Both of our
Hamakuapoko wells are down and are in need of repair. One
of the wells has been pulled out and we're doing the
necessary repair there. We have another purchase order
being issued to the contractor to pull out the second well
to assess the repairs that need to be made. And following
that, we would need to run the pumps. The only way we can
run the pumps is to have a drought emergency in place as
declared by the board. So I would recommend that no action
be taken at this time.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Thank you, Mr. Tengan.
Members, any questions? Mr. Victorino.
MR. VICTORINO: That's okay, no need. Well,
just for -- and I think I see our new members with some
questions in their, in this presentation. To understand,
we declared a drought in the Upcountry area back in I think
November, if I'm correct, October or November of last year,
and at that time things were fairly dry.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Could you have the new
members ask the questions and then Mr. Tengan can explain?
I'd prefer that, than for you to explain and you are going
to miss something.
MR. VICTORINO: Well, Mr. Tengan wasn't the
Director at that time either, so I mean it's just a
Catch-22. But anyhow, put it this way. And also, what
we'll do is, I guess what he's asking is so we can get
these pumps back up on-line and test them, we need to keep
the emergency drought status in place. If not, these pumps
would be repaired but are unable to be tested because of
that fact. If it's not under the emergency drought status
those pumps cannot be used. That's the only way the wells
can be used. Am I correct, Mr. Tengan?
MR. TENGAN: That's correct.
MR. VICTORINO: Now if you have any questions
you can go ahead.
MS. PYLE: I just wanted to be sure. Actually,
that's not exactly where my question was going. My
question though really does center on the fact that I think
now that there has been a change in the status of this
board, which is now an advisory board, it really does not
make decisions or I don't assume that it makes decisions
concerning drought status or anything of that type. So I
guess my question is, we can be advisors and certainly I
would agree with what you say, that we need to advise that
the pumps we taken care of and all of those kinds of
things.
But I guess I would like to know from now on who
is going to make the decisions, the action part of it that
we no longer can do, about drought status. Does that come
from the department, does the mayor sign this, must it be
approved by the County Council? Maybe Mr. Kushi can help
us. This is one of those rules that seems to be in
conflict.
MR. KUSHI: Yes, board member, I am looking at
your rule Section 4-1, which is entitled Declaration of
Drought. And there's some conflicting language that says
that basically the board shall issue a proclamation
declaring a drought to an existing area which the board
did, and at the time they did they were authorized to do
it. It goes on further and says, the director, with the
approval of the board, is authorized to restrict use, et
cetera. The director, with the approval of the board, may
prohibit certain rules and so on. The director, with the
approval of the board, may also prohibit the installation
of new meters and service.
Again, as I stated before, with the change-over
this may be in conflict. I would say it's not totally
inconsistent. I would say the Director, with the advice of
the board, may do so and so.
MS. PYLE: But does that still have to be --
does that still then have to be approved by the mayor's
office?
MR. KUSHI: It doesn't mention anything about
the mayor in this one.
MS. PYLE: Is that one of the issues where the
rule may have to be relooked at?
MR. KUSHI: Correct. This may be one of them
that you may want to review.
MS. PYLE: Well, yes. So we are right now kind of
in a muddy water area concerning this particular issue.
MR. KUSHI: Right. I think the Director's
intent in bringing this to you is to get your advice and
your consent.
MS. PYLE: Absolutely, and I totally agree with
that. But I do think the public should understand also
where the decision-making along these lines will be made,
okay. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Thank you, Miss Pyle. Miss
Raisbeck.
MS. RAISBECK: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I do feel
that the language of Section 4.1, which refers one, two,
three, four, five, six, seven times to the board as the
operative decision-making authority, I think that probably
all is in conflict with the charter change. So I would
assume, for myself at least, that I would totally concur
with Dorothy that if George wants advice from us that's
great. He has utter authority on his own now to change or
keep the drought emergency that was declared before.
And one thing that hasn't been mentioned, you
didn't quite explain, Mike, why it was that the H'Poko
wells could only be pumped during a drought emergency.
That's, I believe, in response to a court order that the
wells were considered contaminated, and therefore they
should only be pumped if there was a dire need for them.
So that's the reason for the drought emergency, if I recall
correctly. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Thank you, Miss Raisbeck.
The report from Mr. Tengan is at my request. I asked for
this update. Any further questions of the Director? Mr.
Hiranaga. Would you please pass Mr. Hiranaga the
microphone? Thank you.
MR. HIRANAGA: Point of clarification on why the
pumps went down at H'Poko. Was it a lack of use?
MR. TENGAN: The report I got from our plant
personnel is that when the pumps were put in some bushings
were put in reverse order. So after awhile the pumps
became inoperable and they had to be pulled out.
MR. HIRANAGA: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Any further questions?
Mr. Kenneth.
MR. OKUMURA: I just wanted to say that, you
know, I live Upcountry and the weather has gotten really
dry. Although it's raining on the other side, the weather
has gotten really dry. So I think it's always good to be
cautious. We are not out of the woods yet.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Thank you. Any further
comments, questions? There being no action required of
this communication, the memorandum will be filed.
Moving to the second item on the agenda, item B,
Director's Report 03-06. It is answering some of the
questions that we had at a previous meeting under the
discussion of the priorities. Mr. Tengan.
MR. TENGAN: Mr. Chair, I have asked the
engineering division to handle this item, so I'll call up
Alva Nakamura. And I believe he has Alan Murata with him.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Thank you. Alva?
MR. NAKAMURA: If you have any questions, we can
answer, or at least we will try to answer anyway.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Thank you. Miss Parsons.
MS. PARSONS: I have a few, so bear with me. I
understand, and it's on the record, that there was an audit
of the top 50 of the people that you were sending this
registered letter out to, is that correct?
MR. MURATA: Yes, that's correct.
MS. PARSONS: Who performed the audit?
MR. MURATA: You know, again, I'm not real
familiar with how everything was handled. Herb Chang, my
supervisor, was in total control of this part of the
situation, and it was my understanding that when the audit
had to be performed Herb submitted all the written
documentation needed for the auditors to confirm the place
on the list and that the tax map key numbers were accurate.
MS. PARSONS: He did?
MR. MURATA: Yes.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: The audit was performed by
Russell Yamane and Company.
MS. PARSONS: And that all the tax map keys were
correct?
MR. MURATA: Yes.
MS. PARSONS: Okay. Going down this list that
you have right here, I'm going to go for the hot button
first. There are two unknown TMK's on this list. Can you
explain why they are unknown to us and why they are not on
our master lists? One is PF-Three Partners. That TMK is
not on our list. And the other one is Thomas Arp. He is
neither on the Internet list nor the list that I have, the
confidential list from inside the water department.
MR. MURATA: Could you explain that further?
MS. PARSONS: Well, when you cross reference
your TMK's -- we have several different lists. We have, on
the Internet we have a list which you can get the priority
list in a line. You can also get it by TMK so that you can
see the duplicity in this list.
So when you look for these TMK's, and one of
them is 2-4-13-181, that's the PF Partners, and when you
look for the other TMK, which is 2-3-65-025, Mr. Arp, they
are neither on the list nor anything close to them, nor are
their names associated with our names, our list of names
that we use confidentially inside the water department. So
can you explain to me how they came on your priority list
for your certified letters?
MR. MURATA: I can't say, I don't know why. I
know the PF Three Partners, that's a subdivision
application. It may be that the tax map key number was
listed, has changed since the first request was made. We
have numerous instances where the original TMK number has
changed over the years based on what the owners of the
properties have done over the years. So the TMK numbers
were adjusted to reflect -- it's the same physical parcel,
but the tax numbers have changed. I am not sure if that's
the case in this particular situation.
MS. PARSONS: So you are telling me that
somebody in here, 1 through 50 here that we sent out
letters to, would have had to have done something to the
property, and that's why there would be another TMK. But
that person that got the new TMK is -- the old TMK probably
didn't go away. He may have subdivided the property, or
whatever he did, unless that TMK went away. This new TMK
person got placed ahead of the rest of the list?
MR. MURATA: You know, I don't know exactly what
happened on those particular requests, again, but if tax
map key numbers were changed it's, again, we verify that
it's the same physical parcel and we ask for supporting
documentation to show in what manner the TMK numbers had
changed, if they did. And if, again, the parcel number is
the same or the parcel, the physical parcel is the same,
you know, it would be a reasonable request.
MS. PARSONS: Well, I know it's not number one
because I know Craig Rasmussen, and his hasn't changed, so
he's probably already got his water meter, but he's missing
on the list. Number 41, number 10, number 38 and number 48
are the only ones out of the top 50 that are missing.
Could it possibly -- are you telling me that these people
in number 41, number 10, number 11, number 38 or number 48
don't exist? And also, why weren't they in this priority
list of certified letters?
So 41 is Haleakala Homesteads. I know they
still exist. Number 10 was Cusack. I think they still
exist. Number 11 is Piiholo Farms. I know they still
exist. Number 38 is Todd Preseault. He still exists. And
number 48 is Kitada, and I know they still exist.
MR. MURATA: You're saying they are not on the
list of certified letters?
MS. PARSONS: No, they are not on the list of
certified letters. They are also the only ones that are
missing out of the top 50 here that you sent letters out
to. So we're back to the same question. How did PF Three
Partners sneak in here and Thomas Arp?
MR. MURATA: I can't answer that for you. I'd
have to check with Herb Chang.
MS. PARSONS: I would appreciate an answer for
that.
MR. HIRANAGA: Where is Herb?
MS. PARSONS: Herb is on maternity leave. All
right. When we look at this certified list --.
MR. MURATA: Excuse me. Somebody just notified
me that PF-Three Partners is the same as Piiholo Farms. I
guess their partnership name has changed.
MS. PARSONS: But the TMK's don't match.
MR. MURATA: Okay, I have to verify that for
you.
MS. PARSONS: And if they got a new TMK, I think
we have to discuss whether they can move themselves up on
the list if that old TMK still exists. We don't swap it
out, that's not fair.
MR. MURATA: Yeah. I mean we do verify that if
the TMK number has changed physically the parcel is the
same parcel. If the number has changed then it's a tax
office thing then, you know, nobody can prevent that. I
mean it just happens.
MS. PARSONS: Why would a number change, that's
a good question?
MR. MURATA: I am not sure of all the
circumstances. I know in one case that I dealt with the
owner had gone through a subdivision process through a
private water system, and he had one meter. The one meter
was allocated to one of the TMK's. The other parcels were
off a private system so they were not under our
jurisdiction, but the parcel he was on the list for was
given a new TMK number.
So he essentially came in with -- through the
years he came in and he said, "Hey, I'm on the list for
this TMK number. The tax office changed my number, not by
my choosing, but they changed my number, so can you revise
my number to reflect that? " That's just one instance. I
don't know in what other cases the tax map key numbers got
changed.
MS. PARSONS: We need to look at that, because
if that TMK still exists, 97, then we also have to make
some kind of recommendation on how to handle this. Because
if 2-4-13:097, if that still exists that's where the water
meter is registered, and it was registered to Piiholo
Farms. Now, if that did change without subdividing itself
into another TMK, then that's an issue we have to discuss.
If they subdivided and this is a separate TMK and a
separate ownership, we have to discuss and recommend what
to do with that. It's got to be fair to the rest of the
list.
MR. MURATA: I'm sure Herb Chang does have that
information. He's been very careful to document
everything. It's just, you know, sometimes it's hard to go
back and figure out things.
MS. PARSONS: Have him put it together so we can
go over that, so that there's no discrepancies there.
Going back here, when you have, for instance, on
this list you will have a Eugene Taniguchi, and then you
have got his TMK, which is 2-3-03:061, you have got a comma
203, comma 202, what does that comma 202 and 203 mean?
MR. MURATA: Does somebody have an extra list I
can look at?
MS. PARSONS: It's in the back on page 14. It's
under the field of TMK or file number.
MR. MURATA: On the -- and again, that one I'm
pretty certain they had subdivided their property and they
received final approval based on the 216 agreement. So 61
was the original parcel. They received new tax map key
numbers for the second and third parcels. In order to get
the meters they needed to complete the improvements, and so
those two numbers reflect the two other lots that were
subdivided.
MS. PARSONS: Okay, that makes sense. Out of
this list how many of these are subdivisions, how many are
water requests, how many are applications on the top 50?
Do you know it offhand? If you don't, you can detail it
for us next time.
MR. MURATA: I think there was a question and
answer sheet.
MS. PARSONS: I saw usage, I didn't see how many
results.
MR. MURATA: It doesn't give the breakdown, but
if you refer to the priority list, the subdivisions are
denoted by SD. The water requests are denoted by WR's, and
the building permits are denoted by BPA's.
MS. PARSONS: Would you please, for the next
time that you give us a report like that, note on here how
many there are so that for the other board members too?
There are, I have that list, but could we have that,
please? Yes, and I'd like to have Herb Chang here next
time, please. Thank you.
MR. NAKAMURA: He should be back.
MS. PARSONS: Good. Do you know how much water
usage this is estimated on? How many of these people in
this top 40, or whatever, 40-ish, have responded yes
positively to the meters?
MR. MURATA: The only way I could determine as
far as positive responses were by the number of
reservations placed. Those are definite, "We are going to
proceed, we want the meters" and I think that number is
given in the report.
MS. PARSONS: What page is that?
MR. MURATA: Page five. There are others who
have responded saying that they are interested in getting
the meters but they want to discuss the requirements
further. And, you know, granted these guys have been on
the list since '93, and it's hard for them to make a
decision within 30 days. So we have had ongoing meetings
with several of them, and the Director has extended, you
know, given them more time to make the decision. You know,
again, a lot of these people are -- they need to spend
money to decide whether they're going to get the meters or
not.
MS. PARSONS: Are we giving them more time?
MR. MURATA: Yes.
MS. PARSONS: We are. Okay. So is that
something that you just decided internally that you are
going to give them more time to make a decision?
MR. MURATA: No. These people have met with the
Director personally and explained their situations, and the
Director has acted on his discretion.
MS. PARSONS: How much time are we giving them
for a deadline?
MR. MURATA: I am not certain. I am not keeping
track of those. I haven't been in on all those meetings.
I do know that one person I have worked with, his request
was extended two weeks. But as far as I understand, it's
not an indefinite amount of period.
MS. PARSONS: So would you like a recommendation
from the board on how long that that should take? Because
we need to move through this list.
MR. MURATA: If you guys want to provide some
recommendation, that's fine. I think, you know, a lot
depends on each individual's situation. Some of them, you
know, again, you know, like you hear a lot of these people
they have got to invest tens, hundreds of thousand dollars,
and they need time to line up their ducks and make sure
they're going to proceed.
MS. PARSONS: The board stated in a previous
meeting that the first hundred folks on this list be
notified, and it's taken us nearly six months to get 40-ish
letters out. And it's -- no, it's not, the 79 certified
letters is another issue I want to go over, but there's
only 48 people on here supposedly that have been notified.
And we need to move through this a little more rapidly. We
can't take years to get through the top 100.
My understanding -- and this is from 1993 and
1994, right, these early ones. And just like Mrs.
Hoeffken, there are issues that need to be addressed for
fire flow and whatever else. It would seem more prudent
that instead of -- and as I understand, maybe you can tell
me more about this -- when Mr. Chang was doing this, each
one of these applications were reviewed. And he did this
outline like he did for Mrs. Hoeffken, okay. And he's
telling her that we don't have adequate water for fire flow
and she's got to do the upgrades.
So he's gone through each application that's ten
years old. I don't know that that was the board's intent
at the time we wanted you to issue the hundred letters.
What we wanted were people that were going to respond to
it, and we wanted to know how many people would be wanting
the meter, and then we could figure out -- we may want to
give those people that say yes they want the meter the
opportunity of six months to figure out how they're going
to correct this. That may be a possibility.
But I think rather than waste the time to define
each and every old application that's out there, let's find
out if these people still want the water. And if they do,
then we get more detail, we check them, they stay on the
list, and we move forward. Those that don't want it, we
won't worry about it. We will just move forward to the
next section. I mean that would be my suggestion.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: I don't think the board's
position was specifically as stated, Miss Parsons. The
board's position was that a priority list was -- a priority
list was created and the board wanted the department to
work through the priority list on a first come, first
served basis as expediently as possible.
MS. PARSONS: Right. That's what I was saying.
That we just move forward with it, and if they want it, if
they want the water then they want the water. But if we
can't find them and they don't respond, or they don't want
the water, my suggestion is you send the letter, let them
come in, bring in their new plans, review it, see if you
have any CIP's in that area. If you run into a Mrs.
Hoeffken problem and you know that you're not going to be
creating any -- there's no chance that you are going to be
able to do any improvements and it's way out of their
ballpark to be able to do the improvements themselves, and
there's no other alternative then, you know, tell them in
person rather than taking that time to analyze something
that you have wasted all that time for, so that you can
move forward more expeditiously and to get through the
first one hundred, right? Right.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Any more questions? Miss
Parsons.
MS. PARSONS: Yes, I do. When you did the --
when you did this review here and you sent out all of these
certified letters, I mean there's duplicity in the
certified letters, correct?
MR. MURATA: Yes.
MS. PARSONS: Wouldn't it have been more prudent
maybe to go to the Director of Finance and find out who is
on the tax map key, TMK letter for, or card for the taxes
on that the TMK, and send the letter directly to one
person, rather than send 78 certified letters out to reach
48 people?
MR. MURATA: I think Herb Chang decided to send
it to the people on record within our files, the contact
person on record, and he verified that against tax office
records. If there was a difference he sent them to both.
Tax records, a lot of times there's multiple owners, and I
think, you know, he had to make a choice as to which owners
he was going to send them to. So again, yes, there is
duplication, but I think he tried to cover that he reach
somebody who can -- who would follow up on the letter.
MS. PARSONS: Okay. Well, I don't know that we
are giving everybody equal shots when you send out eight
letters to one TMK, and only one letter out to another.
MR. MURATA: Well, in those instances he's
showing that that letter is reaching the person that it's
intended for. These people have been making contact with
the department over the years, and we have verification of
their addresses and everything.
MS. PARSONS: Should Hawaiian Homelands for the
Keokea and the Waiohuli be on the priority list?
MR. MURATA: They are not on the priority list.
From my understanding, it was a commitment given in return
for their contribution towards the Kahakapao reservoirs, so
they in essence created their own source. And they are not
subject to the priority list, again, because they -- but
it's a commitment by the department that has not been
handed out yet. So it's a so-called liability right now
because it's unissued water that we are still committed to
giving them.
MS. PARSONS: Is that a duplication then?
Because number 14, Diego, is Keokea/Waiohuli Homestead.
MR. MURATA: The Diego property is a private
property. I believe that's associated with a subdivision.
MS. PARSONS: Can you check that out for me,
because I have it down here as Waiohuli Homestead.
MR. MURATA: The Waiohuli/Keokea area, you know,
because it's in that area, all the subdivisions carry on
the same name. The parent parcel was Waiohuli/Keokea
Homesteads, then every lot subdivided thereafter, a lot of
them carry that same name. It's, you know, instead of lot
two, a subdivision of lot three, but it's the name parent
subdivision name.
MS. PARSONS: Okay. Did Corp Counsel review the
letters that you sent out prior to sending them out to Mrs.
Hoeffken?
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Is that a question for Mr.
Kushi?
MS. PARSONS: I don't know. Well, do you know if
he did or do you want to pass it on to Mr. Kushi?
MR. MURATA: To my knowledge, I don't think it
is, but I think he can answer that.
MS. PARSONS: Mr. Kushi, did you review this
letter or any of these letters?
MR. KUSHI: Mr. Chair, board member Parsons, I
reviewed the letters on the priority lists that went out.
I did not review a letter from Kimo Apana and David
Craddick.
MS. PARSONS: I know you and I spoke about some
other letters that you didn't review, but you did review
these.
MR. KUSHI: Yes.
MS. PARSONS: Why is there not a CC to you on
these letters?
MR. KUSHI: It's not my business, it's the water
department's business.
MS. PARSONS: When we get into the duplicity of
this list, what is your position with regard to the fact
that there is -- I mean just on the list on the Internet
there's over 207 duplicated TMK's in 689 lists.
MR. MURATA: I don't know the full answer to
that. I know for the ones that I am familiar with there's
duplication because the properties have changed hands and
the new owners have requested to be placed on the list. So
their request, although the tax map number is the same, the
request might be different.
You know, they might be -- they might have
different intentions for the property, so the request may
be different. Sometimes they just want to get on the list
again. There's no rules that tell us we can't put these
people on the list. If they request to be put on the list
and they're being denied water because there's no source,
we have to put them on the list.
MS. PARSONS: Well, if their TMK's already on
there. Can you provide for us the duplicity breakout on
how many of these -- we had testimony this morning from
what, two people that the same, they're on there two or
three times but the same request, for the same request.
And maybe can you provide for me how many there are and we
can start to purge this list maybe?
MR. MURATA: Yes.
MS. PARSONS: Just check. I mean I can
understand if they went for one water meter in '93 and then
in '98 came in and needed a subdivision. I can understand
that they're on two different places on the list. But when
the request is the same, it seems to me we can whittle down
this list a little quicker, and we can move people up in
the priority realm if we can purge this.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: I'm sorry, Miss Parsons, we
are unable to purge anybody from the list. The priority
list must stand as listed.
MS. PARSONS: Well, I'm not trying to purge a
person.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: You are. You are asking to
purge applicants. This body will not condone any purging
of any applicant for water service.
MS. PARSONS: It's not purging them away.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Any other questions, Miss
Parsons?
MS. PARSONS: Well, right now that's it.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Oh, thank you so much.
MS. PARSONS: You're welcome.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Members, are there any other
questions? Mr. Hiranaga.
MR. HIRANAGA: Thank you. My understanding of --
my understanding of the purpose of real property tax
numbers is for the collection of real property taxes. And
it should not be considered a final determination as to who
the legal owner is, because you can have a sale or transfer
in title from a name to a partnership or an LLC, to a
corporation, and it's up to the title company to notify the
real property tax division of the change in ownership. But
how quickly that occurs, who knows.
I know that there are subdivisions allowed
through the ordinance that does not require issuance of
water meters, and it is now -- my understanding is it's
taking the County of Maui approximately two years to assign
a new tax map key number to newly created parcels. So
there is a large time lag between numbers being assigned.
So I can see where there could be several parcels having
the same TMK number at this point, because the records have
not been corrected.
I think that Herb's decision to provide
duplication of notice was a prudent thing, because again,
real property tax addressees for bills is for the payment
of the bill. It doesn't necessarily determine who has a
legal interest in the property. So these bills could be
sent to a CPA, an attorney, to any entity that the owner
requests that the bills be sent to. So it doesn't
determine who legally owns the property.
So I think it's better to caution, to err on the
side of -- or it's better to err on the side of caution
versus err on the side of trying to process this list as
quickly as possible. A lot of these people have been
waiting a long time, and I think they should be given the
appropriate time to make a determination as to what they
want to do, if they want the meter or they don't want the
meter.
And also, I believe that the position on the
priority list should run with the specific property and not
with the TMK number. The TMK numbers can be transferred,
but the right should run with the land. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Thank you, Mr. Hiranaga. Any
other questions? Miss Raisbeck.
MS. RAISBECK: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I
wanted, if I might check out with the Director a little,
some information again, this is -- I understand the thing,
I think, but I'd like to check out that it is what I
understand it to be, if that's all right. And his answers
to the questions, I sort of made a little table. And that
in the 60-day period allowed there were 23,000 gallons, 100
issued, 109,000 gallons were reserved, and Maui Ranch
Estates 40,000 gallons, so that made 172, I believe it was,
thousand gallons. And then he mentioned the 500,000 for
the DHHL. And then the next one on the priority list that
the people who had been notified accounted for 137,000
gallons. And I assume that some of those were the 27
meters that were actually responses, those were included,
the 28,000 gallon, 780 gallons for the ones who actually
submitted, that's included in that 137,000 gallons. Would
that be correct?
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Mr. Tengan, would you be able
to answer that question?
MR. TENGAN: I'm sorry, but I don't understand
where you get the 137,000.
MS. RAISBECK: Well, the answers to the
question, if you sort of tabulate the figures, there were
38 meters that were issued, and they account for 23
thousand gallons. This is under the 60-day period. And
then you said that 108 meters were reserved for 109,000
gallons. Is that correct? That was a different answer.
MR. TENGAN: That's in the report.
MS. RAISBECK: Yeah, this is in the report. And
then Maui Ranch Estates had 81 meters for 40,000, and those
all totalled 172,000 gallons per day.
MR. TENGAN: Right.
MS. RAISBECK: Then if you go onto the priority
list -- well no, and then you mentioned the DHHL with
500,000 gallons.
MR. TENGAN: Right.
MS. RAISBECK: That's also water we will be
needing to provide, correct?
MR. TENGAN: Correct.
MS. RAISBECK: And then people on the priority
list, 79 certified letters were sent out for the first 48
properties, and those were 27 positive responses. And I
believe somewhere here it said something about -- I don't
have my reading glasses on. Somewhere I read that that was
28,780 gallons. Yes, the estimated consumption of the 27
reservations submitted is 28,780 gallons per day. And then
of the -- that was part of the 48 properties which were on
the list, and the estimated consumption for the 48
properties is approximately 137,000 gallons. So I assume
that those 27 are part of the 48, it's sort of a subset.
MR. TENGAN: That's correct.
MS. RAISBECK: Okay. So my question really is,
if you take gallons per day per meter of all of these
bunches of people, the first -- under the 60 day period the
first set is 605 gallons per day, and of the ones reserved
the gallons per day jumps up to about 1,000 gallons per
day. Maui Ranch Estates is about 494 gallons per day, and
then when you come down to those who are notified, 48
properties that are notified, that's way up at 2,800
gallons per day for those 48 properties. And I just
wondered why. Is there someone on the list below the 27
that has a really large amount of water requested?
I guess this is getting me to the point of
saying it would be helpful in looking at the reservation
list to understand how many gallons are being asked for for
each reservation so that we get an idea of which of those
reservations are extremely large.
MR. TENGAN: I believe the priority list has the
estimated consumption for each request.
MS. PYLE: It's not on the list we got.
MR. TENGAN: It is not on that list, but it's on
the priority list. The list you are looking at is the list
that the certified letters are sent out to. We can get you
a copy of the priority list.
MS. RAISBECK: That would be very helpful.
MR. TENGAN: To explain the difference in
estimated consumption there, you know, without looking at
the details, I would say that the requests are for
different uses of water. So an ag request would require
more water than let's say a residential request in Haiku.
MS. RAISBECK: It would be helpful to have what
the uses are on the list as well. Is that on the priority
list?
MR. TENGAN: I am not sure if the use is, but
the estimated water consumption is noted on the priority
list.
MS. RAISBECK: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Thank you, Miss Raisbeck.
Miss Parsons, subsequent follow up, I guess.
MS. PARSONS: I count on my list in reviewing
this that we only sent out 44 certified letters, or just 44
parcels, rather than the 48. When you review this
yourselves if you come up with a different number I'd like
for you to share it.
You know, when you stated that the audit was
done and the TMK's were all correct in that first 50, I'd
like to point out that number four on the list, Mr. Ito, is
listed on our lists as 166, 2-3-03:166, and on your list
here he's listed as 168. And Ann Lopes which is number 29,
is listed on our list, and what's on the Internet, as
number 14, and on your list you have her number 22. She's
listed as 2-2-14:014, and on your TMK's you have it as 22.
So I don't know when you made the corrections, but when we
adopted this list those TMK's apparently hadn't been
checked and matched.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Thank you.
MS. PARSONS: One more thing.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: We will stand to recess for
20 minutes.
(Whereupon a brief recess was had).
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: We will reconvene the board
meeting. Returning back to Director's Report 03-06, any
other questions for the directors on the priority list
notifications? Mr. Victorino.
MR. VICTORINO: I would like to point out to the
fellow board members if they have not noticed outside of
one return mail, I took notice that on many times the
return mail, one person from that specific TMK got the mail
and maybe two or three others that were listed on that TMK
the mail was returned. So I am going to go, based upon
what I've read here, that every TMK on this list at least
had one recipient of this mailing, so that no one should be
coming back and saying "I didn't get it." One person from
each TMK at least got a copy of the notice. Thank you,
Mr. Chair.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Thank you, Mr. Victorino.
Miss Parsons.
MS. PARSONS: Is it prudent to make a motion? Is
it prudent -- is it prudent to make a motion at this
point?
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: On what? Make a motion, I'll
tell you if it's in order or not.
MS. PARSONS: Okay. Based on the fact of the
testimony brought forth to us, and recognizing now that the
list has a lot of misrepresentation and duplicity, I'd like
to make a recommendation that the names on the list -- that
the list be halted from any further names being put forth
until the list is thoroughly reviewed, cleaned up, and then
brought back for approval.
And I'm asking that because I think that the way
the list is right now we recognize as board members that we
approve this list based on what the department has told us,
based on the fact there was supposed to be an audit, based
on the fact that we know now that this audit is incorrect.
And so I bring this motion, I bring this motion forth for
recommendation to recognize the inadequacies of the
Upcountry water meter list.
MR. VICTORINO: Inadequacy or inaccuracy?
MS. PARSONS: Inaccuracy, excuse me.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Please restate your motion,
Miss Parsons.
MS. PARSONS: That we recommend that the list be
halted from adding any further names until the list is
reviewed, cleaned up, and brought back for approval based
on the information that we have received today, and for the
purpose of the board acknowledging the fact that there are
inaccuracies in this list.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: The motion is out of order.
You are into rule making with the motion. The motion will
be not allowed.
MS. PARSONS: Why is it rule making?
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: You're making one rule, the
motion makes a rule.
MS. PARSONS: No, I'm asking for a
recommendation. I am not making a rule, I'm asking for a
recommendation for the Mayor to review, or whoever is going
to make this determination, that the list right now is
going on and on, people are still being added to this list,
okay. It's not being taken care of properly. We know that
there are inadequacies in it, and we know that we have
problems with it. And the board has approved this in the
past, this list, based on information given to us by the
department that we now know is faulty.
So therefore, I'm making a recommendation in
this motion that no more names be put on this list until
it's cleaned up, reviewed, and approved.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Restate your motion, please.
MS. PARSONS: I made a motion for a
recommendation that we halt - that the list be halted from
any further names until such time that it is cleaned up,
reviewed, and then approved.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Call for a recess.
(Whereupon a brief recess was had).
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Back in order. Miss Parsons.
MS. PARSONS: So my motion is to recommend that
the list -- that no more names be added to the list until
the inaccuracies have been corrected.
MR. VICTORINO: Second.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Moved and seconded. Moved by
Miss Parsons, seconded by Mr. Victorino. Back to Miss
Parsons, you have the floor.
MS. PARSONS: Oh, I do. I basically stated why.
We recommended it. It's history; we recommended it. It's
time for us now to recognize that it has inaccuracies and
it needs to be taken care of so we know what the real true
list is.
I'd like to clarify one more thing. I was not
talking about when I said purge the list, I was not talking
about eliminating any TMK's. What I'm asking them to do is
to review and see if there are duplicities. If there are
duplicities in the request, that the duplicities be
removed. The higher number, take it off. If it's the same
thing that the lower number is, take it off of there, and
let's see what the real true list is.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Thank you.
MS. PARSONS: You're welcome.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Any other discussions for the
motion? Miss Pyle, followed by Mr. Hashimoto.
MS. PYLE: I only just have one very small
little thing, and I would truly like to change the word
duplicitous or duplicity to duplication, because I think
that the word duplicity has a really negative connotation
that I am not sure that we want to have in our motion. So
duplication, I think, is a better choice. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Mr. Hashimoto?
MR. HASHIMOTO: First of all, is there going to
be a timetable on this? Because if we are going to be
carrying this one again then the people waiting on the list
are going to be waiting a little longer. Are we going to
put a timetable on this?
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Miss Parsons?
MS. PARSONS: I'm not talking about eliminating
them moving forward with what they're doing with the list,
I am not talking about that. This is in addition to it.
So people that are on the list, they should move forward.
This may help them if the recommendation comes down, and if
an order comes down from the hierarchy, that they can --
that all the recommendation is going to do is stop from
adding any more people on here. Let's clean this up.
Don't add any more people on it, let's clean this up and
take care of this. And then once it's cleaned up we can
make a recommendation that you can add more people. You
might find that this whole list is only 200 people.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Miss Crivello? Crivello,
sorry.
MS. CRIVELLO: From what I understand, and I
guess for clarification purposes, the department rendered
the services of auditors Russell Yamane and Company. And
did the board receive a copy of the audit report.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Yes, we did.
MS. CRIVELLO: So with the report it shows that
this is all their findings, this list?
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: The auditors looked at the
first 50 on the list to verify that the department followed
specific procedures in regard to the first come, first
served procedure that was being followed.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Miss Raisbeck?
MS. RAISBECK: This would reinforce my earlier
request that we as a board receive information, like a
report basically, of what the history of the different
lists has been and what the reasons for denying water
service at various times if that changed, so that we have a
little more, those of us who are new have more historical
knowledge about how the list developed, and I would like
that much information.
I also would like to ask someone to explain to
me as a new member what the effect if we -- why would it be
necessary to stop adding names to the list in order to
clean up the list, in Ginny's terms, clean up the list that
already exists, why is it necessary to stop adding names?