BOARD OF WATER SUPPLY
COUNTY OF MAUI
REGULAR BOARD MEETING
Held at the Kahului Shopping Center, Kahului, Maui,
Hawaii, commencing at 9:00 a.m. on June 26, 2003.
REPORTED BY: LYNANN NICELY, RPR/RMR/CSR #354
IWADO COURT REPORTERS, INC.
A P P E A R A N C E S
CHAIRMAN: MICHAEL NOBRIGA
VICE CHAIRMAN: CLARK S. HASHIMOTO
BOARD MEMBERS: STACY HELM CRIVELLO
KENNETH M. OKAMURA
DOROTHY R. PYLE
SALLY RAISBECK
MICHAEL P. VICTORINO
DEPUTY CORPORATION COUNSEL: EDWARD KUSHI, JR., ESQ.
DIRECTOR: GEORGE TENGAN
BOARD SECRETARY: CATHY HOWARD
IWADO COURT REPORTERS, INC.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Good morning. I would like
to call the Board of Water Supply regular meeting to
order. It's Thursday, June 26th, 9 a.m., at the
Hawaii Kahului Shopping Center. In attendance we have
Board Member Stacy Helm Crivello, Board Member Clark
Hashimoto, Board Member Mike Victorino, Board Member
Kenneth Okamura, Board Member Dorothy Pyle, Board
Member Sally Raisbeck, ex-officio Board Member Brian
Miskae, Board Chair Michael Nobriga. Excused for this
meeting, Board Member Kenneth Hiranaga and Ginny
Parsons.
Also in attendance we have the director,
Mr. George Tengan. We have esteemed corporation
counsel, Mr. Edward Kushi, Jr. We have the head grand
poobah, the chief dude of the engineering department,
Alva Nakamura. Board secretary, Kathy Howard. And
members of the public.
I would like to indeed welcome Mr. Brian
Miskae. Brian comes to us with a wealth of
information. Brian has served in a civilian capacity
on this board once before and Brian has always been
able to bring some good matters before the body.
Also I would like to welcome with us this
morning Mr. Garrett Hew, CEO I guess of EMI.
Announcements. I would like to thank George
Tengan, Mr. Alan Arakawa, for allowing the board the
opportunity to attend the annual American Waterworks
Association convention conference in Anaheim,
California, from June 14th to June 19th. The members
attending being Kent Hiranaga, Clark Hashimoto, Mike
Victorino and myself, along with selected members from
the staff, was able to utilize every opportunity to
explore an incredible wealth of information available
to us by the American Waterworks Association. I have
new confidence and a new sense of pride in having the
type of employees with the County and the Board of
Water Supply after hearing some poignant discussion up
in the Mainland from different water municipalities.
Any other announcements?
Now move to the approval of the minutes.
Members, for your consideration we have minutes of
April 24th, 2003, a new member orientation; April
24th, a regular meeting; and also a May 22nd regular
meeting agenda before you. A motion would be in order
to receive the minutes subject to a 30-day review, at
which time if there are no corrections, the minutes
would be filed.
MR. VICTORINO: So moved.
MR. HASHIMOTO: Second.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: It's been moved by
Mr. Victorino, seconded by Mr. Hashimoto. Is there
any discussion? All those in favor, signify by saying
aye.
[Chorus of ayes.]
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Opposed, nay.
[No response.]
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: The motion is carried. The
meeting now goes to Item V on our agenda, which is
testimony from the public. If there is any person
present that wishes to testify on matters where your
specific item is not listed on the agenda? Seeing
none, we'll move on from testimony. Is there any
written testimony? I did receive a letter from
Councilman Danny Mateo which would I guess appear in
Communications on our next agenda. It talks about the
letter I wrote to them, asking for them to expedite
the necessary rule changes. I do have some response
that I will share with the committee.
MS. RAISBECK: Question, Mr. Chair.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Yes, Sally.
MS. RAISBECK: Did he say when his committee
would be taking up the new rules?
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Sorry, but I -- not
specifically. Basically the letter says in summary
that the corporation counsel is working on a formal
presentation for them.
MS. RAISBECK: Could we ask Mr. Kushi when he
expects they will be ready?
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Mr. Kushi, would you be
able to answer that question?
MR. KUSHI: Yes, Mr. Chair. From my
understanding, Mr. Mateo's committee has been waiting
for an opinion from our office which that letter is
referencing to. There was a meeting scheduled for
next week in Mr. Mateo's committee. From what I
understand, that may be postponed.
In any event, when Mr. Mateo's committee meets
or the entire council meets, they need to decide or
act as to who can make, amend, repeal rules. Our
office is of the opinion that that's still in the air.
Once that happens and whoever -- whatever body is then
entitled to do the rules, they will come back -- the
department will start initiating and I would imagine
the department would reference the board first, get
the board's input, and then whoever needs to approve
it would then go out to a public hearing process.
Again, it's our opinion that this board,
because of the charter amendment, cannot repeal,
amend, make rules. That power was specifically
deleted from them. Again, that's our opinion. So
that's where it is right now.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Thank you, Mr. Kushi.
MS. RAISBECK: Regardless of this apparent
uncertainty, I think the council feels they will have
the ability to establish rules by ordinance. And in
preparation for that, I would very much like to see
this board establish perhaps a subcommittee that could
meet more often than once a month to see whether
besides the technical changes that would be required
by the charter change, whether there are any policy
changes needed or things that have been established
practice that should be established in the rules, or
things that are in the rules that should be changed
for substantive reasons.
And would it be possible to have this board
have a subcommittee going over the rules concurrently
with the council's office investigating the technical
aspects of it?
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Ms. Raisbeck, I will notice
that item on our agenda for the next available
meeting.
MS. RAISBECK: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: You're welcome. Ms. Pyle?
MS. PYLE: I think that -- well, I would like
to ask if the board chair or perhaps a representative
from the board be invited to the meetings that are
being held by the council committee with Mr. Mateo
even if for no other reason information. I feel like
in many ways we are left out of this circle right now
of decisions that are being made concerning the fate
of what this board is going to be doing and it would
behoove us to be a little bit more proactive perhaps
in participation in these meetings and perhaps even to
testify in favor of the fact that fixing these rules
is essential now; not saying one way or the other who
should be doing it, but just simply that the board
needs to have this done sooner rather than later.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Thank you. Moving on, if
there is no objections, would we be able to take up
Unfinished Business before Director's Report? Hearing
no objection, so ordered.
We will now go to item VII, Unfinished
Business. Communication 03-09, letter from David and
Leonora Masters requesting a waiver. Mr. Masters,
could you please come forward to the chair immediately
next to the court reporter, use the big microphone on
the table. State your name for the record. Also you
may invite other assistants.
MR. MASTERS: Yes. Thank you, Mr. Nobriga. I
would like to let Mr. Geiger speak to the board since
he will be representing us.
MR. GEIGER: Good morning, my name is James
Geiger. I am here representing David and Leonora
Masters, who are the applicants here.
As a matter of procedure or practice, I guess,
we are asking a waiver of one of the rules and under
the new rules, it requires a two-thirds vote of the
voting membership. I'm not sure we have enough people
here to even raise this issue because I believe your
voting membership is 12 even with three vacancies, so
that would require eight.
A VOICE: No.
MR. GEIGER: Okay. Then we are ready to
proceed forward. I just wasn't sure how you wanted to
handle that.
In addition, we have a Power Point
presentation we were going to give. Would you like to
handle something else while we set up or do you want
us to just go ahead and set up?
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: We are going to recess
while you set up. Recess for 10 minutes.
(Brief recess.)
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: We'll give the meeting back
to Mr. Geiger.
MR. GEIGER: Thank you for allowing us to set
up. Good morning, Mr. Chairman, Mr. Vice Chairman,
members of the board. My name is Jim Geiger and I'm
here on behalf of David and Leonora Masters -- Nora
Masters -- who are residents in Haiku. We are here on
item Communication 03-09. We're requesting a waiver
of your water meter rule.
Our presentation this morning will involve
some information on the background of the applicants
so you know who we are, why we're here. Basically
David is the son-in-law and Nora is the daughter of
the original owners of the property, Federico and
Eusebia Fontanilla.
We'll give you a history of how water service
came on the property. Basically there are three water
meters in existence that serve three permanent
structures on the property. For your information,
this is a photograph, an aerial photograph that was
taken in the early 1990s of the property which shows
the three structures. We have a structure up here and
a structure here, a structure here, and of course, the
farming operation.
Why we're here is that we're requesting a
waiver of your rules to allow one extra meter for a
total of two meters on this property as opposed to the
one 5/8-inch meter. And the reason for this request
is that Nora and Dave would like to continue the
operation of the property as they have in the past to
allow the three structures as well as the farming
operation.
To give you a little overview of where we are,
the property there -- and if I had steady hands, it
would help -- is the Masters parcel which is about
five acres. It is part of the Takitani Farms lot
subdivision which has eight lots that go along right
in that general area.
The Maui Ranch Estate subdivision is a
subdivision of approximately 71 lots that goes in this
area here, and then there are four additional lots
right there that also are involved in the
Ulumalu-Peahi water system improvement project that
I'm sure you're aware of. Essentially these 85 lots
were all part of and received the water from the same
source. Right now it's coming through the private
water system of Maui Ranch Estates. Maui Ranch
Estates obtains its water through the County of Maui
through two two-inch meters and have been buying water
from the County of Maui for a number of years. The
water presently comes in here and ultimately ends up
down at various properties, including the Masters
property.
This is an aerial view. It's another photo.
You can see that Mamao Place, which is the roadway, is
a right there. It is a dirt roadway right now. This
picture, as I said, was taken in 1940 -- excuse me, in
the early 1990s, 1994, we believe.
As far as the applicants, the property, as I
said, was located in the Takitani Farm subdivision.
Lot 13, this particular parcel, was purchased in 1980
by Federico and Eusebia and Nora, David's wife.
Federico was a farmer from the Philippines who
immigrated to Maui in 1971. He started clearing the
land in 1980 on the purchase, he started farming, he
started building the structures. And ultimately the
three structures were built and the last one was
completed sometime around 1987. He continued on
farming until his health forced a retirement, so that
ultimately Nora and David bought out the mom and dad
sometime in 2001.
As far as the water service goes, in 1970 Maui
Ranch Estates was formed. They had their own private
water system. Sometime in the early to mid '80s, as
near as we can tell, the Takitani Farm lot subdivision
started receiving water service through the Maui Ranch
Estates system. In 1980 through 1984, Lot 13, the
Masters lots, received their three water meters that
they were using on the system. In the mid to late
1980s, the Maui Ranch Estate water system we believe
started receiving water from the County of Maui
through these two two-inch meters that we spoke of
earlier.
Ultimately, beginning in about 1986, Natalie
Powell, a resident of the Ranch Estates who later
became a member of this board, started working to
improve the system and basically get it on to the
county system. At the time that the [inaudible] first
began, Natalie said that the Lot 13, the Masters lot,
would receive the same three meters that they had when
they started. This representation continued up until
at least 2000 when we were told that we would still
have the same three meters.
Well, in 1999, finally, after about 13 years,
Natalie secured the federal participation necessary to
do the improvement project. There was about a hundred
thousand dollars in block grants from HUD and there
was $1.4 million from the Rural Development Fund of
the Department of Agriculture, $70,000 from Tri-Isle,
and then of course the County of Maui also
participated in this project.
In 2002, finally, in the summer, a Notice to
Proceed with Construction began, and in 2003 this year
the project is expected to be completed. But
unfortunately, upon completion, when they go on to the
county system under the new system, the Masters,
instead of having three meters like they have always
had for 20-plus years, are only going to receive one
meter 5/8ths in size to operate three residences and a
five-acre farm. You can understand why they're here
asking for some help from the board.
The water meter issuance rule says that any
lot is going to be limited to one 5/8-inch meter per
planned subdivision lot. That's the rule we're
running up against and that's why there is only going
to be one meter initially or one meter allowed. What
we're asking for is to get a waiver. We're not asking
for us to get all three meters, but we would like to
have a waiver so we can have one additional meter.
Now, we can do this and your rules allow it if
the board, by a two-thirds vote of its entire voting
membership, waives or modifies the requirements of the
rule. To do so, you need to finds three things.
First thing you need to find is that strict
application of the rule would cause an absurd, unfair,
or unreasonably harsh result. Second thing you need
to find is that the circumstances or conditions are
unique or exceptional and that you would grant the
request if someone else similarly situated would come
before you. The final thing you need to find is that
the resulting action of the board will be without
detriment to the existing users. And we believe that
each of these three elements exists in this particular
case.
First one is about strict application. Why
would this be an absurd result? Well, presently, as
you know, we have three meters that service the
property. The property has been using county water,
as near as we can tell, from the mid to late 1980s.
The property has been used for farming for over 20
years. Strict application of this rule would be
absurd because we would be going from three meters to
one meter, but we're on the same system, we're using
the same water. All that's happened is that the
infrastructure improvements have been made better.
But as far as our usage, it's the same.
The problem is that one meter wouldn't allow
sufficient water for the Masters to operate the farm,
to operate the three residences. In fact, it would
reduce the water flow by two-thirds obviously from
three meters to one meter, water flow goes down to
two-thirds.
Now, it is possible that the Masters could,
with expending significant funds of their own, putting
up tanks, doing engineering studies, trying to do the
necessary pressure needed to operate it, that they
could in fact operate with one meter. But it would
require them, as I said, to put up tanks. Let me show
you -- David, could you raise this? The property has
-- right now this is where the meter would be proposed
to be, at the top left. We would like a second meter
down here by this structure here. The reason we want
the second meter is that there is a drainageway that
runs through the property at approximately this
location. In order for the Masters to continue to do
the farming operation, they would have to erect some
sort of storage tank up here at the top of the
property, have a pressure system placed in place, and
then they would have to run the piping down through
the depression and back up over to this area here, not
to mention all the way down over there. And Dave
wants to add something.
MR. MASTERS: If I could just interject, this
now has a concrete driveway here which we would also
have to cut through.
The other thing you'd notice different is all
these trees have been removed back here. We found the
property line is much further back then they had
originally thought. And this has all been cultivated,
this has all been put into production.
MS. RAISBECK: What do you grow? Excuse me,
Mr. Chair.
MR. GEIGER: The crops range from -- as I
indicated, there was at one time a piggery, there was
some pigs there, but basically they have dryland taro,
they have bananas, they have some coffee, they have
some Chinese vegetables, they have peas --
MR. MASTERS: Mostly it's Filipino vegetables
that we have in production right now, but I've also
grown some great sweet corn and bush beans, which I
rotate back and forth. One is nitrogen taking, the
other is nitrogen complete.
MR. GEIGER: So we believe that the strict
application of the rule in this case would be absurd
because the only thing that's changed is that the
infrastructure has improved, but we've lost two
meters. We've been using the same system, same amount
of water, same everything, except we have different
infrastructure.
The circumstances in this case are unique.
This is a -- we came from a private system. We are
the only lot that we're aware of within the
improvement area that does have three meters, very
unique in that sense.
In addition, we think we're unique because, as
we indicated earlier, the moving force behind this had
indicated to Dave and Nora and continued to indicate
up until 2000 that we started out with three, we'd end
up with three. We're not going to get three, we're
not asking you for three, but we do think two is
appropriate. So in our case, I believe you can find
that the circumstances are unique.
Finally, the resulting action would not be
detrimental to existing users. There are three meters
that presently exist using county water. The usage
will not increase but it will in fact decrease because
we're going to go from three to two, if the board
grants the approval.
We thank you for your time this morning. In
conclusion, I just want to go over a few points just
to I guess reiterate them if we haven't nailed them
home so far. This has been a family farm since 1980.
They have been in farming, they would like to continue
to be in farming, and we would hope that the board
would support family farmers. There have been three
meters in existence since the early 1980s. They have
used county water since the mid to late 1980s. It
would be unfair to reduce these people from three
meters to one meter. There are unique circumstances,
given the fact that this was a private system that was
buying water on the county system. And there would be
no detriment because we're only asking for one
additional meter and it would be a decrease from three
to two, so that there would be a net profit to the
system.
We want to thank you for your time. We would
welcome any questions that you may have and would hope
that the board would grant our request for a waiver in
this case.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Thank you. Members, any
questions? Mr. Geiger and Mr. Masters, I have a
couple questions. You say that you have -- you had
three meters.
MR. GEIGER: We have three meters.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: You still have three
meters.
MR. GEIGER: We're still on the private
system. It has not been converted over because
construction has not been completed yet.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: And these three meters are
assigned to which tax map key?
MR. GEIGER: The one tax map key.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: And there is a removal of
meters anticipated?
MR. GEIGER: What happened is that, yes, there
would be a disconnect -- actually, no, that's not
quite right because what's happened is they're hooking
up to the new system so that there -- what would
happen is that there would be and there is a new meter
here -- right now one meter. And we're asking that
there would be a second meter allowed right here.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: So the three meters that
you have on the system currently, where are those
three meters located?
MR. MASTERS: There is two meters located here
and one down right here in front of the house. This
is where I had the second lateral installed when the
contractors were digging down the road. This is going
to be paved. This is going to become an all-weather
road for the first time in its existence. And I
didn't want to go right back and dig it up right after
they paved it. So while the contractors were going
down the road, I got permission to have the second
lateral put in.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Mr. Hashimoto?
MR. HASHIMOTO: You realized that this was on
a private water system and you signed an agreement not
to hold the Board of Water Supply -- it says right
here, [inaudible] they will not demand or request the
department to approve and install a water meter by
[inaudible], et cetera, et cetera, because it's a
private water system. And because you were on a
private water system and not on a county system, you
signed that waiver of agreement.
MR. MASTERS: That was before my day, sir.
But I think it's probably a moot point now that the
improvement has already been made.
MR. HASHIMOTO: Because you also said that you
will take all the responsibility of, you know, if the
system goes bad, then it's going to be --
MR. MASTERS: I spent many, many hours out
working on it, sir, yes.
MR. HASHIMOTO: So then again I guess we go
back to all these other people that don't even have a
meter, they have been waiting for 50 years and they
still don't have a meter, so I don't see it right that
we're going to put you up into that category where you
will get a meter before them. And because even in the
newsletter that the mayor alluded to that only one
5/8ths water meter would be allowed.
MR. MASTERS: That was our first notice, sir,
December of 2001 was the first time we found that.
MR. HASHIMOTO: And then you would be put on
the list like everybody else.
MR. MASTERS: Right, sir. That notice was
that was sent out in December 2001 was our first
indication that we would only be getting one meter. I
went into the water department the next day to find
out where we were fallen through the cracks and why we
weren't going to be getting the three meters we were
promised. And I spoke with Alan, who is the engineer
on the project, and he said that that's -- that was
the board's decision to only allow one meter in that
subdivision and that we would have to get on the list.
But he said if the well at Pookela came in as it was
expected to -- this was in December 2001 -- that all
those meters should go out within a year. So
hopefully within a year, we will have the --
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Ms. Pyle?
MS. PYLE: It seems to me that in reading
through these things and in listening to you, the
person that we really need in this room is Natalie
Powell. I don't know who Natalie Powell is.
Apparently she is someone who has made decisions and
made comments to people about what was available from
the County of Maui. Is any of that in writing? Did
she get anything from the county with signatures
attached to it that said that you would be entitled to
three water meters?
MR. MASTERS: Not that I know, ma'am. This
was all long before the county even got involved in
it. This was many years ago.
MS. PYLE: I can tell you you can have three
water meters; are you going to believe me?
MR. MASTERS: If you're on the water board and
--
MS. PYLE: Natalie Powell wasn't.
MR. MASTERS: Yes, she was, she was on the
water boar.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Ms. Raisbeck?
MS. RAISBECK: Just for Dorothy's information,
I did know Natalie Powell. She is no longer alive,
unfortunately. She worked extremely hard to get the
water system for this entire subdivision where she
lived, to get that, and she was on the water board and
a very important member of the water board and I don't
blame the Masters for relying on her opinion, but
unfortunately it looks like in 2001 that was not -- no
longer taken by the board and the department as
necessarily effective. But she was an extremely
active and extremely reliable person.
MS. PYLE: But it was still her opinion.
MR. MASTERS: Yes, ma'am, she was the one who
put together all of the funding.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Any other questions,
members? Mr. Victorino.
MR. VICTORINO: As I read through this also,
and I'm familiar with this because you have come
before us before, I think the bottom line -- as
Ms. Pyle has stated, that even though opinions or you
were led to believe certain things by certain people,
that the rules that are in place now which are what
you are dealing with, unfortunately says one. We have
a long waiting list. And to move someone like
yourself up and leave those who have been waiting as
many years or maybe longer than you have for meters,
wouldn't be fair. Also, the director as well as the
mayor have both turned your request down and I don't
see any other possibilities. I cannot with a clear
conscious make a decision to go against their wishes
because that's the policies and ordinances that are in
state right now and that's what we have to go by.
I'm sorry, it may not be a fair decision in
the sense of what you've gone through and what you
started, but it's also the rule we've got to live by
because if we start changing yours, then next meeting
we've have ten other people in here wanting variance
or waive their problem, and it's a catch-22.
The other part of it is we still haven't
figured out exactly where we are in this whole process
with the new board itself. So even if we did
recommend anything, it would still be only a
recommendation. We cannot, as you stated, two-thirds
majority make a decision to waive these rules because
we're in a quandary making changes within our own
organization and our bylaws. That's all I have to
say, Mr. Chair.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Ms. Raisbeck.
MS. RAISBECK: I think you have a very
excellent case and I too feel that I cannot -- being
as new as I am, I cannot overrule the director who has
the most intimate involvement here, on the basis of
making an exception if he does not feel that it's
justified and being familiar with the previous
history. So even though my -- you know, I would love
to be able to make the exception, I agree that when
you have rules, you have to abide by them until either
you change the rules -- which I would love to see the
rules gone over to be more fair. Until you change the
rules, otherwise we have to have very stringent
considerations to make exceptions to those rules and
unfortunately I'm afraid I agree with the older
members of the board that it wouldn't be right to --
well, the more long-term members of the board, pardon
me, then I cannot see making an exception even though
certainly you have a really persuasive case. Thank
you.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Ms. Crivello?
MS. CRIVELLO: I do would like to ditto I
guess what the other board members said. Mainly I
think, number one, we will be setting precedent if our
recommendation is to your liking. And at this time I
would like to just make my vote in support of our
director and the mayor and I'm sure they have done
their homework to accommodate their reply. So I
think, too, that you're in a unique situation and it's
awkward, but, you know, there is a list that needs to
be accommodated also and at this time I think you
should follow the rest of the residents of upcountry.
MR. MASTERS: You are right, we are unique in
our situation that there are no other properties out
there with three legal, fully permitted. And I have
all the permits, that was one of the questions that
came up last month. And a farm. And we just can't --
we can't run the farm. We won't be able to grow
anything without additional water source. And until
they finally order a pump for the Pookela well, it
won't happen, I know. But as of last Friday, they
still had not ordered a pump for that well.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: So my question is it would
require two-thirds with a board of nine, that means
you would need six votes affirmative. We have seven
members present. Based on discussion that you hear
currently, do you wish to withdraw your request?
MR. MASTERS: No, I would like to get
something definitive, sir, one way or the other. If I
have to spend an extra ten to fifteen thousand dollars
for over a year, that's what I have to do.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Okay. We'll proceed. A
motion is in order. Members?
MR. VICTORINO: I move that we approve the
Masters -- I can make it in a positive and you can
turn it down. Motion to accept the recommendation of
the mayor, Mayor Arakawa, the letter of 4/29/03 and
the director's letter, that we follow that as our
recommendation.
MR. HASHIMOTO: Second.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Moved and seconded. Moved
by Mr. Victorino, seconded by Mr. Hashimoto. Do the
members understand the motion?
MS. RAISBECK: Clarification.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Ms. Raisbeck?
MS. RAISBECK: The intent of the motion is to
deny the request for a waiver, correct?
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Yes, ma'am.
MS. RAISBECK: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Any discussion on the
motion? All those in favor, signify by saying aye.
[Chorus of ayes.]
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Opposed, nay.
[No response.]
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: The motion carries. The
waiver has been denied. Thank you.
MR. MASTERS: Thank you, folks.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Okay. Moving back now,
ladies and gentlemen, to Director's report 03-13,
update of the Ulupalakua upgrade project. Mr. Tengan,
thank you very much for putting this together for us.
MR. TENGAN: Mr. Chair, we have a short status
report on the project I would like to go over. The
firm of Belt Collins Hawaii has been contracted to
perform the engineering services for the pipeline from
Kamaole Tank to the Kanaio Lateral, consisting of
approximately 5,000 feet of 12-inch pipe, 9,000 feet
of 8-inch pipe and appurtenances between Kamaole Tank
and the Ulupalakua Lateral. It also includes 9,000
feet of 8-inch pipe between the Ulupalakua Lateral and
the Kanaio Lateral and also 12,000 feet of pipe for
the Ulupalakua Lateral for contract amount of
$409,800. The Notice to Proceed was given on June
16th, 2003. The consultant plans to start with the
field survey along the pipeline route shortly.
Improvements along the Paeahu Lateral and the Kuhulu
Lateral and storage improvements are not part of the
project at this time. The term of the contract is 320
days.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: So to summarize, we have
design work proceeding with the project. After design
work has been approved, then we go to the construction
phrase maybe? Thank you. Any questions, members?
Yes, Mr. Hashimoto.
MR. HASHIMOTO: So this 320 calendar days is
just for the study or for the project?
MR. TENGAN: For the design.
MR. HASHIMOTO: Just for the design. So the
projected completion or -- what is --
MR. TENGAN: Design portion?
MR. HASHIMOTO: Installation and everything, a
couple of years?
MR. TENGAN: I guess our normal time period on
projects is usually about a year, but depending on the
scope of this project here and the location of this
project, it might take longer than that. And I would
expect that it will take longer than that. So if you
want a rough estimate, I would say maybe about a year
and a half following the water bid.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Ms. Raisbeck.
MS. RAISBECK: So can -- I don't know, is it
possible to estimate at this time what the total
construction costs will be or does that have to wait
until the design is finished? I mean, just a ballpark
figure?
MR. TENGAN: All we know, it's going to cost a
lot of money right now.
MS. RAISBECK: Is that a technical term, "a
lot of money"?
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Maybe Mr. Miskae can shed
some light.
MR. MISKAE: I just have a question,
Mr. Chairman. Is the environmental assessment
included in that contract fee?
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Good question. Mr. Tengan?
MR. TENGAN: I believe it is. According to
the information we have here, the time period is
exclusive of governmental review periods, construction
plans, permits and environmental assessment. But I'm
sure it's included in the contract.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Affirmative was shown by
the head engineer Alva by the nod on his head.
Mr. Miskae.
MR. MISKAE: Just a follow up, Mr. Chairman,
is there an anticipation to have a finding of no
significant impact?
MR. TENGAN: We're not prepared to answer that
question right now.
MS. PYLE: This is a heavy Hawaiian area.
MR. MISKAE: Because you're probably going to
run into a lot of culturally significant sites here
which could trigger a full EIS which could balloon
that price dramatically.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Good point, Mr. Miskae.
MR. TENGAN: I'll make sure that our
engineering division consults with Mr. Miskae on those
issues.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Thank you. Back to
Ms. Raisbeck.
MS. RAISBECK: Yeah, that brings up something
that I remember from last year that the upcountry
community plan does not allow water to be exported
from the upcountry community plan area. And is any of
this water going to be exported from the community --
from the upcountry community plan area to the Hana
area, if it's Kanaio? I mean, I think there are
community plan considerations involved here and legal
questions. So maybe Mr. Kushi could update us on
that.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Would you be prepared at
this time to comment on that, Mr. Kushi?
MR. KUSHI: Of course I'm not, Mr. Chair, but
I understand the situation and I recall what the
upcountry community plan states. If this area is --
I'm assuming this area is within the community plan
region, Ulupalakua, maybe halfway or whatever.
MS. RAISBECK: Kanaio sounds like Hana area.
MR. KUSHI: That's a fact.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Anyway, good point to be
researched by the department, I'm sure. Any other
questions?
MR. VICTORINO: Mr. Chair, since some of these
subjects have been brought up, I would like to request
at our next meeting answers to these questions, you
know, because there is some definite uncertainties by
different board members, including myself, that I
would like definitive answers, both from corp counsel
and from the director.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: These would be specifically
-
MR. VICTORINO: The upcountry -- the impact,
where is the line drawn as far as Kanaio and is it
considered part of the upcountry or is it part of the
Hana district, with the premise about water being
taken out of the upcountry area.
Secondly, Mr. Miskae's questions about the
impact if we are coming along and we find burial sites
or other cultural -- significant cultural sites, that
that may cause problems. I mean, they are
possibilities and if they are, what kind of plan of
action other than the department coming -- so those
kind of questions.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Mr. Hashimoto?
MR. HASHIMOTO: Are you going to be following
the same -- I mean the same route as the existing
pipeline?
MR. TENGAN: I think we're pretty much
thinking about going along the same area. A lot of
the area is currently being used as grazing land by
Ulupalakua Ranch and other ranches. Anyway, these
issues will be considered and I'm glad Board Member
Raisbeck brought up that point because I do recall
that Kanaio is part of the Hana area and that that
statement in the upcountry community plan could have
an impact on the project.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Thank you. Any further
questions, comments? Okay.
Moving on to item VII, Other Business,
discussion regarding drought situation. I asked for
this item to be placed on the agenda. Basically the
catalyst is from the June 14th front page Maui News
article about drought and HC&S. And we have asked
Mr. Garrett Hew to join us. Garrett, could join us up
front at the front table? Maybe ask Mr. Hew to give
us a short summary of the systems that he is entrusted
under his care. I know Ms. Raisbeck will have plenty
questions for you.
MR. HEW: Director Tengan had asked me to come
here today to answer any of your questions regarding
the drought that we've been having for the last 11
months. From last August until now, we've had 10 out
of the last 11 months with below average deliveries.
And I believe it was the first week of June that the
flows in our ditch system was at about eight or nine
percent of capacity. And luckily we had some sporadic
rains since that time. However, it has -- it was very
welcome to have these rains, but I think the watershed
is not really recharged now because, for example,
yesterday we had a shower in East Maui. The main
ditch was up at about 180 million gallons. This
morning it's right down back to 70. So in a matter of
less than 24 hours, we dropped a hundred million
gallons.
But if there is any specific questions that I
can answer from the board, I'll be happy to answer
them now.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Kenneth? I'm sorry.
George.
MR. TENGAN: I just wanted to clarify
Mr. Hew's statement in that when he makes reference to
flows in the ditch, it's a rate of flow and it's an
instantaneous measurement and it's not the total
volume of water that's going through the ditch at that
time.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Thank you. Mr. Okamura.
MR. OKAMURA: Ten months was below the average
flow, or something like that. What is the average
flow, you know, what is that average?
MR. HEW: Every month is different and we've
kept records, so depends on the time of the year.
Historically, you know, we have good flows in May,
June. The last two months May and June have been less
than 50 percent of what we normally deliver to the
plantation and to the upcountry water system.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Ms. Pyle?
MS. PYLE: I'm just trying to put this all in
perspective. The article stated that there are
impacts because of the drought that HC&S is feeling
and is having I'm assuming temporary or at least
cyclical lay-offs as a result of that.
MR. HEW: That's correct.
MS. PYLE: I guess one of the questions that
we could focus on or one of the issues we could focus
on is a constant up and down, back and forth
relationship between the increasing demands on the
upcountry water system for residential and domestic
use which requires that more water be taken out of the
constant flow of the ditch system. And so I guess --
maybe this is where we're going with this, is should
there be a stronger emphasis made on water usage --
water usage restrictions for the upcountry domestic
users in relationship to the fact that the plantation
is now having to lay off people? So while we are
telling the people upcountry that they should be
careful about their water use, we aren't currently, or
at least the administration isn't -- we can't do this
-- the administration is not saying there is an
absolute water restriction. But if there was an
absolute water restriction, would that give more water
to the plantation so that people could continue to
have jobs? That's kind of where I'm -- where I see
this whole issue is and what the advice of this board
should perhaps be.
MR. HEW: I think due to the variability of
the surface water source, you know, it can vary by
several hundred million gallons --
MS. PYLE: In five minutes.
MR. HEW: In five minutes or whatever. I
think as farmers, not only large plantations but any
kind of farmers like Mr. Okamura or Mr. Hashimoto, we
all depend on water and surface water is very variable
and I think it's one of those things that has been
around for many, many years. And, you know, several
farmers have called me and said hey, what's the
weather going to be like in the next several months.
And I says I really don't know, I can't tell you. And
they said do I plant this month or don't? And I says
I can't tell you that. But, you know, there is so
much variability, it's very difficult.
But to answer your question, I think for the
domestic use, if there was a more reliable source like
groundwater that could alleviate the problem in such
times as this, I think that would be very good.
As far as large scale agriculture such as
HC&S, the plantation has limited amount of wells.
These wells are all brackish wells, they were not
suitable for domestic consumption, they cost a lot of
money to operate, and they do not serve the entire
plantation. So if surface water is short, these wells
can supplement certain areas for a short period of
time. But we cannot solely continue on just brackish
water to run the farm.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Ms. Raisbeck.
MS. RAISBECK: I don't really have a good
understanding of the, you know, the relative use of
water by the plantation. What is the minimum say
gallons per day that would allow full production on
the plantation? How much minimum do you need?
MR. HEW: On the 37,000 acres of cane during
the hot summer months requires I believe in excess of
would 200 million gallons per day, 250, somewhere
around there.
MS. RAISBECK: And if you get less than that,
you have to cut back.
MR. HEW: If we have less than that required
amount, what needs to be done is to operate these
brackish water wells to supplement that surface flow
that is not there.
MS. RAISBECK: How much per thousand gallons
does it cost you to run those wells?
MR. HEW: I can't answer that question. I
don't have a good grasp on that number, I'm sorry.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Mr. Hashimoto.
MR. HASHIMOTO: Up in the convention I was
interested in droughts, so I went to a couple of the
drought sessions. And both in Seattle and in Orange
County areas, the domestic -- when the domestic rate
use -- I think Seattle was 56 percent, you know, for
the lawns, 58 percent in Orange County, so, you know,
over half of the water, domestic water is being put on
the lawns. And so, you know, they're doing a lot of
things, trying to curb that or trying to improve, you
know, water conservation.
But again, the farmer, if they are going to
cut back, like you said, you know, I think it's going
to be devastating, it's like a layoff for them. But
most of the water is being used -- over half the water
is being used on lawns.
MS. PYLE: I think that was the direction that
I was going in and the question that I asked was if we
are in truth going to be an advisory board for the
department and hopefully gather information and
offering well-thought-out advice to the department, to
the administration, there needs to be these balances
of what is the real impact for the upcountry water
users and the economy of the plantation. And these
are really serious issues. And perhaps we do need to
look at this in light of an advisory capacity since we
are not making the decisions any longer. At what
point do we advise even on short notice that there
needs to be more restrictions made?
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Mr. Victorino.
MR. VICTORINO: In listening to the variables,
agricultural versus domestic use, and in particular
the upcountry area always seems to be the thorn of the
island, yet I've always -- when I lived upcountry and
now I live in town in Wailuku, I always felt it was
one county and that we are now facing a critical
shortage throughout the state. As some of you are
aware, there is a drought alert throughout the state
of Hawaii, just not on Maui. Oahu is grappling with
this at this time.
I think if I was recommending any kind of
ideas or possible solutions or possible
recommendations I should say to the department, is to
start looking at not only declaring mandatory water
restrictions upcountry, but voluntary restrictions
throughout the County of Maui wherever possible.
Because I think we're one county and Iao and all these
other ones are going to be adversely affected as this
drought continues. The drought is not only on one
side of the island. If you watch the West Maui
mountains, we haven't had cloud cover on the mountains
for quite a while. And that's got to start taking
effect in the very near future.
We also should be cognizant of the fact that
our farmers, they need the water to grow products that
we consume. And if our back lawns or our yards are a
little brown, not as green as it can be, maybe that's
the sacrifice we have to make as domestic users.
Also, and tacking on to what Mr. Hashimoto
said, I went to an all-day class about brown water and
brown water issues, which is very prevalent to the
upcountry area. We're not only talking surface water
but groundwater issues. And we all face this together
as a county. So that would be my thought in this
area, you know, I think that's what everybody is kind
of coming around to, is how can we help the upcountry
area, keep our businesses, our farmers in production
the best we can, and how as domestic users we can
sacrifice a little to help ensure that our farming
community can proceed and not have to cut back and lay
off I think 90 people I think was it in this paper,
90, yeah, some 90 field hands were suspended are laid
off for temporarily. And that's a lot of people.
That has a tremendous economic impact on our county.
So I think we've got to have a better balance
and the recommendation, like you say, Ms. Pyle, must
be well thought out. But we need to recommend some
definite immediate conservation efforts throughout the
county.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Ms. Raisbeck.
MS. RAISBECK: I remember during this past
month Mr. Hashimoto sent around an e-mail pointing out
that the voluntary restrictions on upcountry usage did
not apply -- had never traditionally been applied to
agriculture use. And I wanted to find out whether
this is part of the rules or is this just a custom. I
mean, is it an interpretation or a custom? And
whether if it's -- whether it should be in the rules,
basically, first of all. Whether it should be in the
rules or a more formalized policy that even though
domestic users are being asked to cut back say 10
percent, the farmers are not being asked to or should
not be asked to. And I would like to see, again, a
discussion of the rules so that we're clear about this
fact.
The second thing where I think the rules
impact us here is there was a letter to the editor I
think subsequent to this that brought up a point I
have felt for a long time as true that asking
upcountry users to cut back 10 percent is not the fair
way to do this. There is a minimum level required for
household use and that runs 400 usually -- I think the
average is around 400 gallons a day. When we
previously had data on usage in different parts of the
country -- of the county, I think Wailuku, Kahului,
the average usage per household was in that area, four
or five hundred maybe, and the average usage in Kihei
was 1,500. And you know that that's a thousand
gallons, you know, a thousand gallons a day going for
landscaping.
So that it seems to me it would be fair if
you're going to cut back, you don't cut back the
people who are only using 400, 500 gallons a day and
you do cut back the households that are using high
amounts for --
MS. PYLE: Charge them more.
MS. RAISBECK: Or you increase the cost per
gallon for people who are using -- well, even that's
not fair because just because somebody can pay to put
thousands and thousands of gallons on their
landscaping doesn't mean they should be getting the
water for it.
MS. PYLE: But it gives you money for water
development.
MS. RAISBECK: I would like to see rules again
looked at to take up some of these issues.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Thank you. Mr. Okamura?
MR. OKAMURA: One question. At what point
does the HC&S determine that you have to lay off the
workers? Is there like a level in the ditch or is it
a combination of factors, when it gets down below 30
million gallons a day or --
MR. HEW: I don't think there is any set
number, but any time when you -- like say in June,
early June, when you have 20 million gallons total in
the ditch and the county is accessing about eight or
nine so that leaves us with a balance of 12 or
whatever. And we're also supplying the ag park some
water from our system, so another one and a half, but
we have to send down a few more million in order for
those pumps not to cavitate down there or suck air.
So we're basically, you know, at that point
total flow, 50 percent is going to the county and
we're left with a very, very short amount of water.
And it all depends on rainfall. Of course no rainfall
this time of the year.
And what we do is we continue to plant until
we know that there is no more rain in sight and then
somebody has to make the determination and, you know,
have people stay home.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: I like to ask George what's
going on with the second H-Poko well pumps, if he
knows.
MR. TENGAN: They're scheduled for repair.
The first one has been repaired and it's been running
a couple weeks, so we're going to be working on the
second one shortly. I believe the contractor went up
to the Lower Kula booster pumps to work on that and
then they were scheduled to go down to Hamakua Poko
pump number one.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Another question I have is
we used to pump from Kamole up the line. I don't
even know if we still capable of pumping up to
Kahakapao now. Do we have the capacity to pump up to
Kahakapao yet?
MR. TENGAN: The line is still there, but I
believe that it's nonfunctional right now and probably
the pump station needs to be replaced if we needed to
do that.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Mr. Hashimoto, you had
something?
MR. HASHIMOTO: No.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Any other discussion?
Mr. Miskae.
MR. MISKAE: Without beating this up,
Mr. Chairman, there has always been thoughts of trying
to construct storage when this ditch is flowing at 177
million gallons a day. Is there any thought of any
public/private partnership to develop some kind of
surface storage to stabilize this particular flow?
That subject comes up all the time, but then it kinds
of just goes over here all the time, too, and we don't
seem to really start talking about that.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Mr. Tengan.
MR. TENGAN: Mr. Chairman, if I may address
Mr. Miskae's concern. The department is working on a
reservoir of the Lower Kula system. We're looking at
putting our reservoir in the size of two to three
hundred million gallons per day. We had originally
planned for a reservoir down at the Kamole treatment
plant area. However, in meeting with the upcountry
advisory committee, it was decided that a reservoir in
the Lower Kula line would be better because with the
storage there, with the gravity flow the water down to
the Makawao-Pukalani area should the need arise rather
than pump water from Kamole up to the Lower Kula
system, which would be expensive.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Mr. Miskae.
MR. MISKAE: Just one other point,
Mr. Chairman. Maybe some of the new members -- I
don't know what kind of package of information that
they have, but a few years back we did work on an EL
rule that actually did establish penalties and that
sort of thing for big users, benefits for small users,
that sort of thing. I don't know if you folks are
familiar with that rule. Okay.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: We actually do have
scheduled some workshops early next month to help the
membership go through all of our different memorandums
of understanding and contracts and agreements that we
have within the upcountry area. So that's going to be
a very eye-opening experience, I think. It's going to
help us understand especially the upcountry system a
lot more.
The other area that we need to focus on as
we're going through a drought situation. A drought is
basically an act of God, it's not a man-made thing.
So if we're having a drought situation in upcountry
and agricultural areas of HC&S and the farmers like
Kenneth's farm and stuff, we'll also be experiencing a
similar drought and recharge situation in our central
system. From reviewing the report this morning of the
water pumped in thousand gallons from the county, I
noticed that if you add up all our water being used in
central for the last four weeks, we have like 24
million gallons that we're using; in the end of May,
25 million; in the beginning of June, 23.5 million
gallons during the week of the article and then 25
million gallons being used last week. That's a lot of
millions of gallons that we're using just in the
central system.
So I think when we talk about drought, we need
to look not specifically in the upcountry area, but we
need to consider actually recommendations for the
entire system. That's all. That's all I have.
MS. PYLE: I think that there is an additional
-- well, it goes along with this. You're looking at
this brown water use thing, you know, for the Iao
aquifer. April 30th it says the percentage of
sustainable yield was 87.82 percent. For May 31st,
it's 89.45 percent of the sustainable yield. And at
what point do we cross over to nonsustainable? So I
think that in many ways the central system and the Iao
aquifer are as serious or more serious even than the
upcountry water supply and certainly needs to have
perhaps the same kind of workshops attached to it as
we are going to have for the upcountry one.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Fortunate for us, the Iao
rule has specifics spelled out when -- what triggers
what. That's the nice part. But we're getting really
close.
MS. PYLE: The state is stating right there,
telling us they are getting ready to take over.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Mr. Tengan.
MR. TENGAN: Mr. Chair, in response to the
board's concern about Central Maui, maybe you guys
were already on your way to the conference, but we did
issue an advisory a couple weeks ago for the Central
Maui area also. As you know, we do have weekly
pumping reports, we look at those closely and we try
to manage the wells and where we pump from based upon
the pumping reports. And we monitor what's going on
upcountry every day so we're on top of the situation
and we try to manage the resources as best as we can.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Thank you. Mr. Okamura.
MR. OKAMURA: I think I want to throw in one
thing. I was thinking that, you know, sometimes there
is no way of telling, you know, what the trend is
going to be, whether we're going to have rains or it's
going to get drier. And a few weeks ago I was
thinking that when like the flows were down to the 20
million gallons, that we should have maybe called or,
you know -- it's not hard for a domestic user to cut
back 10 percent or to cut back somehow by some system.
So I was thinking we should have called maybe
mandatory or made restrictions sooner at that point in
time. I thought about that. Earlier I didn't because
we had water. But based on the fact that it's not
hard, you know, for a domestic user to cut back, maybe
we should have called mandatory or whatever the word
for it is, restrictions earlier.
And the other thing I wanted to bring up is if
we have like voluntary restrictions for a long period
of time, people might not think anything about it, you
know, like it's been going on for six months and my
lawn is getting dry, but I've got to water my lawn, so
they're going to do it. I just -- I'm not saying that
-- trying to point a finger, but maybe think about it
a little bit more and like was said earlier, try to
come up with a little bit more definite ways or a
little bit more ways to try to maybe make -- if --
prevent the situation from getting worse. Or if the
situation gets worse, we have like at least tried a
little bit harder.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Yes, Ms. Crivello.
MS. CRIVELLO: Excuse me if I'm behind, but is
there an official declaration of drought for the
upcountry area, any kind of declaration of that sort?
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Mr. Tengan.
MR. TENGAN: Yes, I believe that the board has
made the declaration and that gives us the authority
to pump the Hamakua Poko wells.
MS. CRIVELLO: It's drought watch, but not --
can you define what is drought watch and what is the
actual declaration that -- because if we declared it
as drought, isn't it automatic that we the users have
to -- no?
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Mr. Tengan.
MR. TENGAN: Mr. Chair, I wanted to mention
that several years ago we developed drought guidelines
upon which the department would respond to the
situation. However, about three years ago, the board
instructed the director not to follow those guidelines
anymore. If the board would like to, I can make
copies for next board meeting if the board wishes to
revisit that.
MS. PYLE: That would be really helpful. I
think perhaps for Stacy, I think having a drought
watch indicates that the department and perhaps the
administration have some flexibility to declare that
we need to have a restriction, but it does not
establish a restriction from that point forward. It
just says that we are now on notice that this could
happen.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Thank you. Mr. Hashimoto.
MR. HASHIMOTO: I think in the -- when Jacky
put out -- Takakura put out the article, I think she
had the guide or the guidelines, she had it down in
her press release. Or it was in the e-mail anyway.
MR. TENGAN: I don't believe it was in the
press release.
MR. HASHIMOTO: It wasn't. It was in her
e-mail, then, I think, to the board, the triggers.
MS. PYLE: I haven't been getting those. I
got one press release a long time ago and I haven't
gotten any more from her. So I don't know whether
I've gotten somehow kicked off the list or something
because I haven't been getting them.
MR. HASHIMOTO: Usually Cathy sends it.
MS. HOWARD: We haven't had a press release.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Okay. Let's get a little
bit more back to order. Any other last words on
drought? Anything anyone wants to add? Can we move
off of this topic? No recommended action.
Ms. Raisbeck.
MS. RAISBECK: Yeah, I would join Mr. Okamura
and Ms. Pyle in requesting that we look at what --
whether or not the board needs to make any
recommendations regarding shortage of water in the
Central Maui system. And I would like us to look at
that because I'm familiar with the Iao water rule and
it was made less useful when they put very high levels
-- 95 percent of sustainable yield, 99 percent of --
or 98 percent of sustainable yield before they do
anything, and that really reduced the usefulness of
those guidelines in the Iao rule. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Thank you. Okay. We're
going to be moving on to Item B of Other Business.
Being that with the Charter Amendment this body has
moved closer into the fiscal calendar of the County of
Maui, I felt June was a good time to have elections of
board Chair and vice Chair as our calendar actually
will start in July. Being that we assist in the
budgetary processes of the department, those budgetary
processes start much earlier now that we're under the
county than it had in the past, although we always had
followed the fiscal year. That's why we're
recommending we call for elections at today's meeting.
Yes, Ms. Pyle.
MS. PYLE: I just wanted to ask or to comment.
That's fine. You know, I have no -- but I think that
-- I think Sally passed out a request to consider that
part of the rules put the elections in April. And I
know that this seems like some people don't agree with
this. But since the decisions or the changes in the
tenure of the board members are always changed from
March to April, in many instances and I know from
other boards' experiences, it's entirely possible that
the Chair no longer be on the board as of April. And
so if we -- in this case, it's fine because you're
here. But if you were not, if your tenure had ended
in March and you had been the Chair, if we had not had
an election, that does leave the board with a little
bit of limbo to be in until there is an election held
at a later time.
So I think that the reasoning for requesting
that these be done earlier in connection with that is
probably a valid reason. But we can't do that for
now. So here we are.
MR. VICTORINO: No offense, Mr. Chair, I think
Sally was --
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Proceed, Mr. Victorino.
MR. VICTORINO: I think Sally's rationale was
really to maybe even change this from April to a later
date. Because if I read this correctly, give the new
members time to participate and take part and
understand what's going on?
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Ms. Raisbeck.
MS. RAISBECK: The original -- when I first
came on the board in April, the original plan had been
to elect the Chair in March with old members
participating and none of the new members would have
been able to participate in the election.
I think many boards do elect their Chair the
first meeting of their tenure. It's considered a new
board and they elect a Chair at that meeting. I think
most people appointed to this board will probably have
had some experience with the members of the previous
board, therefore I don't think -- and I know that the
plan to have the election next month ran into the
problem that both Mr. Nobriga and Ms. Pyle were
intending to be absent. So it just seems to me that
the logical time to have the election of the Chair
would be in April. And I think there should be a
definite time for the election in the rules, which
there is not at the present time, there is no time
specified for the election. It simply says that board
members elect their Chair.
So my suggestion was that this board recommend
to the council, which will be considering new rules,
that this addition be made to the section about
election of the Chair. And, you know --
MS. PYLE: Doesn't apply to us today.
MS. RAISBECK: No, it doesn't apply to us
today. But as an addendum to this item, I would like
to move that this board consider -- that this board
recommend to the county council the addition to
Section 16-102-7 that would say the election shall be
held annually in April of each year or when a vacancy
occurs. So does anybody --
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: I rule you out of order
because the notice that we have of the meeting does
not include the discussion on rule making. And being
that we have no jurisdiction on rule making, that is
my -- that's my call. But yeah. You may ask for a
point of order.
MS. RAISBECK: I think Mr. Kushi might agree
that a suggestion about the election of the Chair
would be covered by the day's agenda item. And the
fact that we don't have rule-making authority is not
-- we do have authority to recommend to the council
and that's our function in fact is to make
recommendations to the council. So I would appreciate
it if you would not rule the motion out of order,
Mr. Chair.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: There has been a motion.
Is there a second?
MS. PYLE: Second.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Moved and seconded. Any
discussion? Ms. Raisbeck.
MS. RAISBECK: Thank you. I think, as I have
said several times in regard to matters that have come
up today, I think it's important that this board make
sure that the substantive matter of our rules is
appropriate and is looked at. And I think we have a
duty to make recommendations to the council,
especially Mr. Mateo's committee, the water resources
committee, to make recommendations to them as to where
we see improvements needed in our rules.
So I don't feel it's premature since I fully
expect that the water resources committee will be
receiving from the corp counsel's office the technical
changes required and at that time I think they would
be very amenable to considering substantive changes
which possibly they would very much appreciate
recommendations from us.
So I think this is a reasonable and timely
addition -- a suggestion about addition to our rules.
It simply all it does -- the only change this makes is
to specify that there will be an election at a given
time. And if people feel May is a better month than
April, that would be fine, but obviously it should be
in conjunction with new members coming on the board.
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Any further discussion?
Yes, Mr. Okamura.
MR. OKAMURA: Thank you. You know, when I
came on the board, I think it would have been hard for
me to make a decision as to who should Chair our
committee because I wasn't familiar with many of the
people. I think at this time maybe in June it seems
better for me because I've gotten to see people, know
them a little bit more so I could make a better
decision. I think April would have been really just
guessing in the dark for me or I wouldn't have --
maybe wouldn't have voted at that time because I
wouldn't know who the people are.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Ms. Pyle.
MS. PYLE: My continuous comment about that is
that if in March or in March of this year both the
Chair and the vice Chair's terms had come to an end
and the April meeting had begun, we would not have had
a Chair or a vice Chair and at that point an election
would have been absolutely essential. And it just
seems that that is -- perhaps that has not been true
on water board, I don't know, but I have participated
in several other boards that that has been the case
and the elections just seemed to have to be at that
point in time because the Chair from the previous year
is no longer on the board and neither is the vice
Chair, frequently.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Any further discussion?
All those the favor, signify by saying aye.
[Chorus of ayes.]
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Opposed, nay.
[No response.]
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Hearing none, the ayes have
it. Motion carries.
MS. PYLE: So now with that done, we can shut
up and --
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: I don't know where we
stand, but yeah. We would prefer to have the entire
board present during the discussion and deliberation
on our new board Chair and vice Chair. So if there is
no objections, we're going to defer this matter to the
next meeting.
MR. VICTORINO: Mr. Chair?
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Yeah. The next meeting
when we have everybody there.
MR. VICTORINO: That may take -- that's a
challenge in its own respect. I think I understand
where you're coming from, but if we wait to have
everybody, this could be a long process, no offense to
anyone.
I think -- and the idea was in some people's
mind today that we kind of set for 2003-2004, which is
what we're talking this term would be, the Chair, and
again, two people are not here. Next meeting, I don't
know, hopefully everybody, but what if Dorothy can't
be --
MS. PYLE: I won't be here next meeting.
MR. VICTORINO: So we always will have
somebody probably having to stay out.
MS. PYLE: But I just won't be here, I know
it.
MR. VICTORINO: But I think something has to
be kind of set and if it's this meeting or next
meeting or something definitive because we cannot keep
waiting and maybe by next April we can do that, but
then we would have that quandary because our Chair and
vice Chair will both be gone in March, so exactly what
we're saying. Very possible.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: There are provisions within
Robert's Rules of Order to handle those things, so
it's not a big issue.
MR. VICTORINO: That's up to you folks, but --
MS. PYLE: You mean when there is no Chair.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Yeah.
MS. PYLE: There are things within Robert's
Rules of Order to handle that, but the setting of
agendas and the actual business of the board doesn't
continue very well unless there is a Chair. You can
run the meeting with Robert's Rules of Order, but you
really can't carry on the business of the board very
well.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Under the current situation
of things, the meeting can carry on as long as you
have a director and the board secretary.
MS. PYLE: I understand, but I don't think
that's the way it should be done.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Yes, Mr. Hashimoto.
MR. HASHIMOTO: I would think since the Chair
is going to be gone and Ms. Pyle and I don't know who
else, why don't we proceed with the elections? I
would like to see the elections proceed today.
MS. RAISBECK: If that's a motion, I would
second it.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: We'll open the floor to
nominations for the office of board Chair.
Mr. Hashimoto.
MR. HASHIMOTO: I would like to nominate
Mr. Kent Hiranaga. He's been on the board for at
least three years. Fourth? Is this his third or
fourth? Third year at least. And he's had some board
experience previously.
MR. VICTORINO: Second.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: It's been moved and
seconded. Is there any further nominations?
MS. PYLE: My only question is has anyone
contacted him about this? And if you're saying
affirmative, then I'm fine. I just hate to sand bag
people because they're not here.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Hearing no further
nominations, then I can assume that nominations are
closed?
MR. HASHIMOTO: I move that the nominations be
closed.
MS. PYLE: Second. For Chair.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: All those in favor of
closing the nominations for the chairman of the Board
of Water Supply, signify by saying aye.
[Chorus of ayes.]
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Opposed, nay?
[No response.]
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Nominations are closed. On
the main motion at hand, to elect as board Chair
Mr. Kent Hiranaga. All those in favor -- is there any
discussion? Okay. All those in favor, signify by
saying aye.
[Chorus of ayes.]
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Opposed, nay.
[No response.]
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Congratulations, Kent.
I would like to open nominations from the
floor for the position of vice Chair. Yes,
Mr. Hashimoto.
MR. HASHIMOTO: I would like to nominate
Mr. Victorino.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Is there a second?
MR. OKAMURA: Second.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Seconded by Mr. Okamura.
Is there any further nominations for vice Chair?
Hearing none, I sense you are ready to close
nominations.
MR. HASHIMOTO: So moved.
MS. PYLE: Second.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Motion to close nominations
seconded by Ms. Pyle. All those in favor of closing
nominations, signify by saying aye.
[Chorus of ayes.]
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Opposed, nay.
[No response.]
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Motion carries. All those
in favor of Mike Victorino as vice Chair, signify by
saying aye.
[Chorus of ayes.]
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Opposed, nay.
[No response.]
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Motion is carried in
totality. Congratulations, Mr. Victorino.
Division reports.
MS. RAISBECK: Mr. Chair?
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Yes, Ms. Raisbeck.
MS. RAISBECK: Is it possible in this time --
we received in our packet of information, we received
a financial status report, third quarter status
report. I have a couple of questions about that. And
when would be the appropriate time to ask those
questions?
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: During the division
reports. Fiscal is a division. So turn it over to
George and then George can get us through and then as
soon as George is done, we can go to specific
questions.
MR. TENGAN: Mr. Chair, we do have division
reports included in the packet. We have a report from
the Engineering Division showing the processing of
building permits and subdivisions. As you notice, the
volume of permits that were handled is quite high and
I believe it goes on -- goes on a regularly basis.
We also have pumping report from the plant
division and we have a report from treatment plant
showing the cost of treating water at each of the
treatment plants. And we also have the summary of the
pumping of wells throughout the county and it shows a
percentage of our sustainable yield on the right-hand
column of this report.
I'll be glad to entertain any questions and
answer them if I could.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Thank you. Ms. Raisbeck,
this is the time.
MS. RAISBECK: All right. Yeah, I do have a
question actually about pumping as well as the
financial questions I had. The pumping on a daily
average was up to almost 6 million gallons a day in
North Waihee and I know that Jonathan Starr always
used to make the point very strongly that that section
of the Waihee Aquifer is really -- has a sustainable
yield really of 4 million gallons a day. So we're
pretty heavily at almost 150 percent pumping
sustainable yield in North Waihee. Is there a
likelihood that we're going to have to increase that
as the summer goes on? Or could we -- could it be
increased as the summer goes on?
MR. TENGAN: As far as the sustainable yield
and the pumping out of that aquifer, we are at a
little over 4 million gallons per day. The department
of the state water commission has taken the position
that the sustainable yield for that portion of the
aquifer is 4 million gallons per day. It is set at 8
million gallons per day for the entire Waihee Aquifer.
We are making efforts to spread the pumping in
the aquifer as we are doing in the Iao aquifer. We're
going to be getting the Waikapu well on line soon to
help spreading the pumping in the Iao. We're
currently negotiating with a landowner to pump or to
drill a well north of the Makamakaole gulch, so this
should help spread the pumping also.
MS. RAISBECK: That will be a couple years.
What about this summer? This summer -- where is the
water going to come from this summer if there is
increased demand in central?
MR. TENGAN: Well, we would utilize the
existing sources as best as we could. And if need be,
then we intend to call for conservation measures.
MS. RAISBECK: Thank you. My questions about
finance -- when we got this financial summary, the
third quarter report, I tried to locate -- there were
some CIP transfers last December. At the beginning of
the month in December, the board voted to transfer
$8.5 million to buy the Kaanapali water system,
$3 million to buy water office space, and
$3.14 million to buy watershed from the Wailuku
Agribusiness, and I couldn't find those this under
CIP. Am I missing something there or where did those
transfers go to?
MR. TENGAN: What you see in the records are
actual financial transactions that have taken place.
None of the items that you've mentioned -- none of the
items you mentioned, action has been taken on those.
MS. RAISBECK: But do those figures still
exist in the budget somewhere? I mean, where can I
locate those figures in the budget?
MR. TENGAN: I don't believe we set aside any
funds for those right now.
MS. RAISBECK: Well, they did it last -- they
voted last December to transfer those funds.
MR. TENGAN: That's to just give the
department authority to proceed with those
transactions.
MS. RAISBECK: I'm sorry, could you repeat
that?
MR. TENGAN: They was to give the department
the permission of the authority to proceed on those
projects.
MS. RAISBECK: So is the department still
going to proceed? Like with the Kaanapali water
system and the watershed.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: No.
MR. TENGAN: No.
MS. RAISBECK: No? And when was that decision
made, I guess is what I'm asking.
MR. TENGAN: I believe the last -- one of the
last things that David did was he did make contact
with the previous owners of the water system, voicing
some objection to the sale to the current owners.
However, nothing was resolved from that.
MS. RAISBECK: But that -- okay, I'm sorry if
I am being very dense about this, but they took, what
is it, $14 million that was in the budget for these
items and have those -- has that $14 million been
transferred to other uses or where is it? Yeah, I
guess.
MR. TENGAN: If it hasn't been transferred and
shown as a separate item on the -- or in the CIP, then
it's sitting in the funds that the board authorized
the transfers from.
MS. RAISBECK: Say again.
MR. TENGAN: As an example, if the transfers
were authorized from the general fund of the
department, those funds authorized for -- let's take
an example, the purchase of the Kaanapali water
system. And if $7 million was authorized by the board
to purchase the Kaanapali water system, if that
transfer hasn't been made, it's still sitting in the
general fund of the water department.
MS. RAISBECK: So the board voting to make the
transfer did not accomplish the transfer; is that what
you're saying?
MR. TENGAN: Right. Because we haven't
pursued the purchase of the system, so there wasn't
any need to transfer the funds.
MS. RAISBECK: Okay. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Mr. Okamura.
MR. OKAMURA: Question again, the budget. You
gave us a copy of the budget and what role do we play
in the budget making process? What are we supposed to
do with this right now?
MS. PYLE: This one that we just got today.
MR. OKAMURA: Yeah. What is our role? We
don't know yet actually -- I mean, outside of we
probably get feedback on it. But, you know, we don't
know when the process goes and what role we're
supposed to play in it.
MS. PYLE: This one is done.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: We have specific
requirements in light of the department's budget
spelled out by the charter amendment and I'm sure
Mr. Tengan and Mr. Kushi can --
MR. TENGAN: Mr. Chair, I believe -- well,
Board Member Okamura probably is wondering what's
going on with the budget because this year has been
somewhat unusual. As you know, we changed our
organizational status from a semiautonomous board and
department, we went to an advisory board and
department of the county under the control of the
mayor.
So for this coming year, we've had to change
our budgetary process. And that change required
speeding up of our budget process within the
department. Normally we would get to the board a
proposed budget by March and the board would review
the budget with staff members and approve the budget
for public hearing by April or the May meeting. And
by the June meeting, the public hearing process would
be all completed and amendments to the budget, if
necessary, would have been made and approved by the
board in June.
However, this year we had to get an initial
budget to the administration in January, so we had
very little time in working with the board in getting
the budget approved and to send them to the mayor's
office for approval.
As you know, the council's budgetary review
started in March and that's when we normally would
have given it to the board. So because of the change
in the process, the board frankly has, you know,
didn't have much time to participate in the setting of
the budget. However, this year we do plan to start
earlier and get the board involved and hopefully get
good input from the board on setting of the budget.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Okay. So again, normally
we would get the budget in March, like George was
explaining, but now because of the new system, we're
happy to look at the budget from September or October
already to be ready by the end of December to transmit
to the mayor.
MR. OKAMURA: This is it -- you started --
MS. PYLE: This is a done deal. The council
approved this. It starts July 1st.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: That's our current fiscal.
MR. OKAMURA: I see.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: This is last year. But not
-- only until March. We still got three months.
Okay. Anything else? Okay.
MS. RAISBECK: Question.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Ms. Raisbeck.
MS. RAISBECK: Just to get it on the record
about the workshops, could we have a brief -- I know
two workshops? Are they separate workshops or
continuation of the same -- could we have a little
description of the workshops that are planned before
our next meeting.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: A notice should be going
out already.
MS. HOWARD: I have not gotten approval of the
draft from corp counsel and I won't be able to answer
that question.
MS. RAISBECK: I'm sorry?
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: We don't know yet.
MS. HOWARD: I can't answer your question
until I get an answer back from corp counsel.
MS. RAISBECK: Mr. Kushi, is there some
problem?
MR. KUSHI: I've received the drafts of a
couple meetings two weeks from now. We're reviewing
it with my office staff and another colleague to go
over the agreements to see if all the agreements are
in place and proper to be disclosed and discussed.
Until then, we will not release the agenda.
MS. RAISBECK: I'm sorry, I didn't hear that
last sentence. Could you repeat that?
MR. KUSHI: Until we've reviewed the agenda
and the agreements to be contained and produced at
your workshop meeting, we will not release the agenda.
So if we -- if the meeting is scheduled for July 8,
then she needs to post by July --
MS. HOWARD: Thursday, because of the holiday.
MR. KUSHI: A decision will be made on the
agenda hopefully by tomorrow.
MS. RAISBECK: And one more question. Could
we, in these workshops, besides considering agreements
-- which I'm very interested, especially that one
agreement about the East Maui water system, the water
agreement -- I very much like to have a list, merely a
list of any outstanding suits by anybody against the
board relating to water.
MS. PYLE: The board or the department.
MS. RAISBECK: The board or the department,
any outstanding lawsuits. Can we just get a list of
those?
MR. KUSHI: I'm sure we can in terms of
current litigation, we can give you the case name, but
we won't discuss it because it is litigation.
MS. RAISBECK: No, I'm not asking for a
discussion, merely a list. And also, we are a party
to the request of A&B for a 30-year lease on the ditch
water and I would like to know the status of whether
there has been any movement since last November on
that. If we could just have an update on that of
litigation.
MR. KUSHI: Mr. Chair, yeah, if the attorney
who's handling it is available at the next meeting.
It's not me.
CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Okay. We will stand
adjourned. Thank you.
(WHEREUPON, the meeting was adjourned at 11:00
a.m.)
IWADO COURT REPORTERS, INC.
Department of Water Supply
County of Maui
P.O. Box 1109
Wailuku, HI 96793-6109
Telephone (808) 270-7816
Fax (808) 270-7951