BOARD OF WATER SUPPLY
COUNTY OF MAUI
REGULAR BOARD MEETING
THURSDAY, AUGUST 26, 2004
Held at the Kahului Shopping Center Conference Room,
65 West Kaahumanu Avenue, Unit 29, Kahului, Maui, Hawaii,
commencing at 9:05 a.m. on August 26, 2004.
REPORTED BY: Rachelle Primeaux CSR No. 370
A P P E A R A N C E S
CHAIRPERSON: MICHAEL VICTORINO
VICE CHAIRMAN: KENNETH OKAMURA
BOARD MEMBERS: DOROTHY R. PYLE
GINNY PARSONS
RALPH JOHANSEN
KENT M. HIRANAGA
MICHELE McLEAN
SALLY RAISBECK
CORP COUNSEL: ED KUSHI, ESQ.
DIRECTOR: GEORGE TENGAN
DEPUTY DIRECTOR: JEFFREY T. PEARSON
BOARD SECRETARY: CATHY HOWARD
STAFF: HOLLY PERDIDO, FISCAL OFFICER
ALVA NAKAMURA, ENGINEERING
BOARD OF WATER SUPPLY
TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
* * *
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Good morning. I would like
to call the Board of Water Supply meeting for August 26th,
2004 to order. Present today, Michele McLean, Kent
Hiranaga, Ken Okamura, Ralph Johansen, Sally Raisbeck,
Dorothy Pyle, Virginia Parsons and Chair Mike Victorino.
Any announcements before I call on approval for
minutes? Okay, no announcements. Then I will go on to
approval of minutes for the July 22nd, 2004, regular
minutes. They have been provided to you. Are there any
corrections, additions or deletions to the minutes?
BOARD MEMBER RAISBECK: Mr. Chair, I have two
corrections. On page 41 line 12, it should be coalition,
not collision. On page 102 line 12, it says Kapalua, but it
should say Kaupakalua.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Any other corrections for the
minutes from the July 22nd, 2004, meeting? If not, all
those in favor of approving the minutes as corrected, say
aye.
(A chorus of ayes.)
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Opposed.
(None.)
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: At this point, do we have any
public testimony? Cathy, do we have any? I didn't get any.
MS. HOWARD: Just the -- I was going to say just
the E-mail. I would say just the E-mail from the Planning
Department.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Yeah, we're going to discuss
that. But we do have some, okay. We have testimony today
from Mr. Dick Mayer from the Kula Community Association, and
he's here to give us testimony on the Upcountry Water Rule.
Dick, are you prepared, or we're just shoving this at you
real fast?
MR. MAYER: Give me about five minutes.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: If that's all right with the
rest of the Board, we can proceed and come back to Dick.
Well, then at this time, I would like to discuss
the E-mail you all have in front of you from Clayton Yoshida
in regards to the request for the Planning Commission having
a joint workshop with the Board of Water Supply tentatively
scheduled -- well, it is scheduled for Tuesday, October
12th, 2004, at the planning conference room. It is
scheduled forp.m. I would hope that all, if not most of
you, can attend. I know Dorothy has already indicated she
won't be able to make it because of her teaching commitment.
Anybody else?
BOARD MEMBER RAISBECK: I'm able to.
BOARD MEMBER HIRANAGA: Mr. Chair, I'll be on the
mainland.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: You'll be on the mainland.
So Kent Hiranaga will be on the mainland. I'm sorry, Kent.
BOARD MEMBER McLEAN: I should be.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: You should be. Okay, unless
otherwise, the only two that I know of at this time, and if
anybody else cannot attend, then please let me know, would
be Kent Hiranaga and Dorothy Pyle at this point that will be
unable to attend. Okay.
BOARD MEMBER RAISBECK: May I make a request,
Mr. Chair, for that workshop?
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Yes, you may.
BOARD MEMBER RAISBECK: We have talked about fire
flow, and it would be helpful if at least a part of the
workshop could include a presentation from the Water
Department and from the Fire Department as to whatever
differences there are between their requirements.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: I think we're going to have
officials, people from the Department of Water Supply,
Wastewater Reclamation Division and the Fire Chief, okay, so
I'll put that down as a request as one of the agenda items
for that meeting.
BOARD MEMBER RAISBECK: One other request I have.
I find Power Point presentations are very informative and
helpful, but I also feel they're unduly paper consuming
compared with presenting the same information in a compact
form in like a memo form. So that if it would be possible
to have tabulated tables of sources and amounts like that
presented in regular pages either -- well, as well as
probably the Power Point form. But it's just when you get
pages of Power Point giving you information that could be
presented on two pages, it makes a big storage problem.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Well, okay. I will discuss
further with Clayton and the rest of the people that --
BOARD MEMBER RAISBECK: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: -- set this agenda up. And
the Power Point will be part of it. It's already been set,
but I will request that for you. And I think it will be a
more condensed form if that's what you're asking for. Thank
you, Ms. Raisbeck. Anybody else have any comments on this
workshop? And if you do have any other requests, then I
would ask you to E-mail me probably no later than September
15th. In fact, I would like it probably by September 10th
so that I can make sure I forward it on to Cathy and Clayton
and incorporate whatever other requests you may have.
Okay. Dick, are you just about ready?
MR. MAYER: Yes.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Thank you very much. That
worked out real perfect. I call now Dick Mayer from the
Kula Community Association. Dick.
We'll pass it out for you.
MR. MAYER: Did everybody get one?
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Would you introduce yourself?
MR. MAYER: May name is Dick Mayer. I'm
vice-president of the Kula Community Association. I'm
speaking on their behalf as well as on my own behalf. I'll
try to maintain the distinction there. I came to the Rules
Committee a few days ago, and the Chair asked me to come
back today and give my testimony today. I'm concerned in
the discussions of the Upcountry Rule that we do things the
right way.
And what I have given to you is a number of items
here, and I would like to just go through them with you.
And I also spoke before the County Council Water Committee
about a week ago, and at the end of that meeting, it was
obvious they were very much in confusion. They were
discussing mainly Central Maui, but also some of the
Upcountry issues. And the problem was it was very unclear
to the members of the Council and to the public what are our
water resources and where are they going, and all kinds of
numbers were coming up.
The Water Department Director kept saying numbers
regarding Iao Valley, and the numbers were totally moving
around even during that meeting, let alone meeting to
meeting. So after the meeting, I talked with the Council
and said, you know, what you really need as a Council and
for the public is an actual budget of where the water is
coming from and where it's going. And it should be
simplified so that on one page you can see this sort of
thing where you have subparts and if you want to have
several accounts.
But what I did was I put on this first page, if
you look at it, it's a template really. It's not meant to
be the numbers. It's not meant to be all the items, but at
least where are the sources for the Upcountry water. For
example, just looking at the first line Olinda Water
Treatment Facility, that may even haveorsubsources
flowing into it. And that might be desirable to put on
there, and I may not even have exactly the right categories.
The first category, sustainable yield monthly
average. Maybe it should be yearly average, weekly average.
Maybe it should be peak numbers. I leave it up to the
Department and the staff or the Council to work this out.
But I know the Council is going to be asking for this kind
of information. They would like to know where the water is
coming from, and down below, the second part below the
bottom two thirds of the page is where it's going to go.
And in Upcountry in particular, you also have not
only the sources, the original source of the water, but you
also have the question of capacity and storage, which gives
you some idea of how many meters can be served, how long a
drought we can last through, et cetera. The second half of
the page, about the bottom two-thirds, take a look at
consumption. I've broken it down into two different
categories, the first by the actual uses, so when you decide
on meters -- and these are not the exact categories you may
want to use. You may want to use your own billing meters,
10, 20, 30, 40 as you have on your meters, but I put down by
functions that the public would understand. And down below,
geographic areas.
Again, on one page, this would give a basic
picture of what is happening. And I say this all as a
background to your discussion of the Upcountry Water Meter
Rule, which terminates inormonths. And what's going
to happen after that? And what's going to happen between
now and then in terms of allocating meters? On the right
side of the page, you'll notice there something we usually
don't get to see, and that is revenue cost plus or minus; in
other words, what is the cost to deliver to each of those
areas and what is the revenue that the County or Water
Department is earning from each of those areas?
You could get rid of some of the overall
administrative expenses of the central department, but at
least the water pumping issue is a major issue. When we say
let's give out meters Upcountry, I know you all realize it,
the public may not realize it, it costs much, much, much
more, three, four, five, six times as much to deliver water
to the Haleakala Highway, upper portions up there on 4,000
feet by comparison to somebody let's say in Haliimaile or
lower Pukalani. And you should be aware of this. So when
you issue meters, what is going to be the cost of the system
to the County, et cetera, over the long run?
Then I've done on pagethe same thing for South
and Central Maui, which is a tied-together system. And
again, each of those sources can be subdivided by the actual
pumps that you have and the sources. But I believe that
basically on one page, you should be able to have for
yourselves, and as Board Members, I think you need it really
when you start making decisions to have one or two-page
graphics that allows you to see a picture of what the system
is providing budgetwise in terms of water and budgetwise in
terms of dollars. And very often those two don't get
together on one page.
So I urge you to ask the Department to fine tune
the categories. I have given you the spread sheet for this,
and they can add in lines and columns as you think, the peak
capacity, how many days of drought we can last through,
et cetera. Those numbers I think are useful. Also, too
often you'll notice down at the bottom there where I put
down number of meters. Number of meters does give you some
idea mostly of allocation lists that we have. I do it by
number of meters. But number of gallons used per meter
varies very greatly by use and by geographic area. And I
draw your attention to the last two pages here in this
six-page packet. Take a look at the next to the last page.
The next to the last page, which is data from your
department, which you may or may not have seen. This is for
the year 2000, and you can certainly get it updated.
This shows each the sub areas of the system; for
example, the sub area at the top, the east central area, and
it talks about the CONS, consumption. And then underneath
that is the number of services. That would be the number of
meters. And you divide the number of meters into
consumption. And you get that number 192 over there to the
right, which is the number of gallons per year, thousands of
gallons per year that these numbers are in.
And it shows you the great variety of uses per
meter. As you read across the top line, the very top line
there; for example, SF is single-family. MF is
multi-family. And you can see, for example, some of the
categories have very much more use per meter, so just
allocating water on the basis of meters can be very, very
misleading both down country and Upcountry. And I would
urge you to consider that when you're developing your
allocation plans that not everything be done in terms of
let's give out 300 meters or 600 meters, but whether it's
for a single-family or a hotel or multi-family, et cetera.
The next page just gives you a little bit of a
historical perspective on it to show that not only -- and
this is done in gallons per day, and this is just for
single-family dwellings. And you can see here the numbers,
and I'm just looking at the top row, across the top here.
Paia, you can see it's gone from 398 to 451, and the numbers
may be higher or lower. I don't have those numbers. But
you can see most of those numbers are increasing over the
roughly decade period, seven, eight-year period of this
little chart here.
And if those numbers were to continue growing,
what does that imply for your water allocations; in other
words, you give out a certain number of meters based on
present consumption. If the rates per usage, per unit, per
meter continue to increase, you may find yourselves in more
danger than you would otherwise think. And the last, the
middle two pages I've just extracted something that almost
never gets mentioned in this County but is really at the
heart of things, and that is the County General Plan, not
the individual community plans, pagesandin your little
packet that I gave out.
Page -- the third piece of paper that I gave you
has the last section of the general plan, talks about
implementing it. And all County laws shall be consistent
with the intent of the general plan. And what does the
general plan say? I've highlighted that one phrase there.
On the next page, the fourth page, is the section
on water. And I wonder how often your director has brought
to your attention what the general plan says about water.
And this is the page in the general plan dealing water. In
general, you probably have to comply with most of it, but
this is law. This is exactly what your board has to comply
with in order to do its job properly, and I do that as a
refresher, because I suspect most of you did see it at one
point while you were on the board. Now, let me -- if I can
just have a minute just to conclude.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Sure.
MR. MAYER: As far as the Upcountry Rule is
concerned, that's the main item on the agenda. I did that
as background because I think all that has to be considered
in making your decisions on what you're going to do with the
Upcountry Rule. I'm very concerned that whatever numbers
you've been given in the past may be very misleading,
because over the past several years, many, many, many, many
homes have been built Upcountry. I don't know exactly how.
We had a meter rule. And you had hundreds, I don't mean
dozens, but hundreds and hundreds of meters have been given
out. Some to Hawaiian Homelands, some to the Kulamalu
project and then all through the Upcountry region, Kula,
Pukalani, Makawao meters have been given out.
Is there any number being kept on how many meters
have been given out and what consumption each of those
various types of meters have been utilizing only for
agricultural purposes? Are they for single-family? Are
they for some industrial operation, et cetera? And I think
that has to be considered, and we have to be very aware of
what's happening. Also, I understand that the Mayor and
others have said there are going to be more meters given out
from the meter list. And I'm very concerned about the
impact that will have on existing residences.
One of the primary things that you have to follow
is you have to preserve the quality of water, and actually
health standards, but also the quality of the water supply.
People need to be able to depend on it to water their
plants. They have to take care of their needs, and I'm very
concerned that as meters are being given out, we may have
some real problems. Pookela obviously is not on line. I
understand the well Dowling has donated has been out of
service now for seven or eight months. And yet, I don't see
a date that's going to be on line.
I don't think we should be in a situation of
issuing meters until we have the water supply actually
operating, not with the idea that it may be operating a year
from now, two years from now. So I would urge you to do
whatever you can. If you're going to revise the water meter
rule at this point between now and the end of the year, if
you're going to be preparing a new one after that point, you
make sure you have enough water to take care of existing
residences, to take care of existing farmers, and to take
care of existing Hawaiian Homelands and future Hawaiian
Homelands.
Because clearly in both the general plan, if you
read that statement, as well as the community plan,
agriculture and Hawaiian Homelands in both of those
documents have a high priority. And I don't see that in
your rule. Your rule sort of got around that by saying,
well, the list was started before the community plan was
established. That was incorrect in the sense that the list
was started after the County General Plan was established.
And the County General Plan says Hawaiian Homelands and
agriculture, and your rule did not take the general plan
into account.
This is before most of your time on the Board when
that rule was set up, but it did not consider the general
plan that requires that. And I urge you to consider the
general plan and not just the community plan Upcountry.
Thank you very much.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Before I entertain questions
from the Board Members, I've got a couple of real quick
questions. On this consumption status -- statistical
calendar, where was all this ascertained from, just so I'm
clear on where these numbers came from?
MR. MAYER: The last two pages you're talking
about?
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Yes, yes.
MR. MAYER: I received these two spread sheets
from Ellen Kraftsow. I believe they were prepared by Carl
Friedman for the Water Department as kind of a contract.
And she sent them to me I think about a year, months, 14
or months ago, so they have been available. Whether
they've been updated in more recent years, I'm not aware of
that.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: I just wanted to make sure we
knew where this came from.
MR. MAYER: I got them from the Department.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Okay. The second thing I
would like to mention is that I like your spread sheet, your
allocation spread sheet. I like the overall conception, and
I think this is something that hopefully we will encourage
the Board to look at and take upon themselves. And when
they gave us the presentations, the biggest thing I liked is
revenue versus cost. Because I think we've gone for such a
long time with an assumptive that water costs this much, but
we all know that is not a fact, especially when we're
talking remote areas Upcountry and other remote areas which
cost us an arm and a leg. And we as consumers as well as
taxpayers, you know, share the cost, which is fine. That's
part of living on a -- in a community. You share some of
the costs.
But when the costs become more burdensome to those
that are being benefitted and not those who are not, then we
have to really consider how far this -- or how the cost
sharing has to be reallocated. And I think that's what the
Water Rate Task Force is doing right now is to try to get
some more realistic numbers, so when we put out new rates,
that would be more appropriate for Maui County today, not
15, years ago.
MR. MAYER: I think the last point is extremely
well taken given the fact that a barrel of oil is 48, $49.
My electric bill, and I urge you all to look at your own
electric bills, and on that bill, you'll notice this year
versus the last months on your electric bill, I urge you
all to compare. Let's say you used 500 kilowatt hours per
month a year ago. Notice how much it's gone up. My bill
went up roughly on the order of 35 percent. And that's even
before the $48-dollar. I suspect you are going to find the
electric bill for the Water Department is going to be going
up somewhere in the order of 40 to 60 percent at least over
a year and a half.
Big increases haven't even come yet because the
oil prices just rose, so I think this is a well taken point,
that the energy cost has to be determined when you give out
meters where they're being given out.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: That's correct. Thank you,
Dick. I appreciate that. I will open the floor to
questions from the members. Okay, wait, Sally, I'm sorry,
Ms. Parsons raised her hand first.
BOARD MEMBER RAISBECK: Okay.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Go ahead.
BOARD MEMBER PARSONS: Dick, as the president of
the Kula Community Association, how do you feel about the
potential of the H'Poko wells being, one or both being
shipped Upcountry? I'm not sure exactly where H'Poko is
going to, but in some of the press stories, it's going
Upcountry. Some of it's going down, maybe split. But how
does Kula feel about that?
MR. MAYER: I'm vice-president, not president.
The Board hasn't taken a position on H'Poko specifically at
all. We don't have the information on the quality of that
water. You know, historically there were problems, so we
don't know that issue. We haven't taken any position.
Interesting though, at the Council meeting last week, your
director said that the H'Poko water was going only to
Central Maui, not at all Upcountry. He made it clear to the
Councilmembers none of that water is going to be going
Upcountry. So I'm in confusion as to where that water is
intended to go and what's going to happen to it.
I do know that if it does go Upcountry, it's going
to be extraordinarily expensive to move it up there. And I
don't know if that consideration has been given and what
effect that has on the budget of the Water Department.
BOARD MEMBER PARSONS: It was my understanding
when they announced it a couple of weeks ago, maybe a month
ago, that we were going to issue more water meters
Upcountry. And we discussed later that H'Poko was one of
the wells that was named as coming on line, so I'm confused
as well.
MR. MAYER: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Ms. Raisbeck.
BOARD MEMBER RAISBECK: Thank you very much for
providing us with this template about how we can get
excellent information in a very compact form, and I'm sure
we will pursue it and possibly minor changes. I wanted to
ask on the last two pages, it says NZ Services. What is NZ
Services?
MR. MAYER: I took that directly off the spread
sheet that was sent to me.
BOARD MEMBER RAISBECK: And you don't know what it
means?
MR. MAYER: And I don't know what it means. Maybe
somebody in the staff does.
BOARD MEMBER RAISBECK: NZ, does anybody here from
the Department know what that means, NZ and NZS?
MS. HOWARD: Repeat your question, please.
BOARD MEMBER RAISBECK: I'm sorry?
MR. PEARSON: What is the question?
BOARD MEMBER RAISBECK: The question on the last
two pages within the table, it says East Central
Consumption, Consumption/NZS and NZ Services. What does
that mean?
BOARD MEMBER PARSONS: Something zone.
BOARD MEMBER RAISBECK: Does anyone know here?
MR. TENGAN: Well, he should provide that
information. Why give information if he doesn't know what
it means?
BOARD MEMBER RAISBECK: I'm sorry, I didn't hear
you.
MR. TENGAN: Why give information to the Board if
he doesn't know what it means?
BOARD MEMBER RAISBECK: Well, because most of it
is extremely --
BOARD MEMBER PARSONS: Why doesn't the Department
know?
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: All right. Please, we would
like to keep this meeting on --
MR. TENGAN: I don't know what Ellen, how -- well,
I didn't even know he got this from Ellen, and I have some
questions to Ellen, too.
BOARD MEMBER RAISBECK: Well, Ellen is in China
right now. I think we all know that. So anyway, thank you
for this excellent template. Thank you for the reproduction
of the general plan, especially the part on water. And
you're right, we should all carefully look at that since it
is the law we're required to comply with. And let's see,
was there something else? Excuse me.
Oh, yeah, and I agree with what you say that we
need to be aware of where our sources are, what the
consumption is, and it needs to be broken down by use. It
needs to be broken down by area, and I believe the
stakeholders committee -- excuse me, excuse me. And I
believe the stakeholders committee will be obtaining some of
that information in their next, at their next meeting.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Thank you.
BOARD MEMBER RAISBECK: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Thank you. Any other --
Mr. Okamura.
BOARD MEMBER OKAMURA: Thank you. Thank you for
the presentation. It was very informative. I wanted to ask
is it all right to discuss a general issue now regarding,
you know, the decision to allow more meters in the Upcountry
area? I think Dick presented a concern that not only he has
but a lot of people have, including myself, regarding
whether there's enough water for the meters to be given out
now and what will happen if there was a drought during the
spring.
So I was thinking perhaps one idea would be maybe
if the Board, we would ask the Department to give us a
presentation on the justification for -- that would present
the issue with the figures so that we could explain to
people how the decision was made and that, you know, maybe
in the worst case scenario, that we would have enough water
even if we gave out so many meters, a little bit more facts
and figures to be able to understand the issue. And if
someone were to ask me do we have enough water, then I could
say, yes, we do because of this, you know. And I would feel
more comfortable if there was some more data and maybe a
presentation to the Board on this issue. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Ms. Pyle.
BOARD MEMBER PYLE: I think that that's absolutely
appropriate, but in actuality, the discussion probably needs
to even be broader than that. And I know that's probably
not on our agenda. But in view of the fact that the water
committee from the Council has stated very clearly, at least
in the headlines of the newspaper, that there needs to be
discussions about giving out of additional water meters in
the Central and South Maui area as well.
It does seem that the issuance of water meters in
general throughout the whole County is becoming a hot issue,
and there's so many developments that are being discussed.
At least we get tidbits about them in the newspaper and in
other areas, and we have really not a very good picture of
how many developments even are on -- coming through the pipe
and how many water meters is that going to be. And I know
Upcountry is an entirely different issue than South Maui,
but good heavens, they're talking about this huge Makena
Resort. Where are they going to get the water from?
And I just keep thinking we're really missing a
lot of information, and, of course, we are an advisory group
right now. And perhaps that is where we're going to be
left, with nothing to say about things.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Mr. Kushi.
MR KUSHI: Mr. Chair, if I may advise you, I
believe your testimony from the public, you should stick to
the questions to Mr. Mayer.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: And I was going to -- I mean
these notes can be put on our further agenda and concerns,
so we follow up on that. Any other questions for Mr. Mayer?
BOARD MEMBER PYLE: I have a direct question. As
a representative from the Kula Community Association, has
the Kula Community Association had an opportunity to meet
and discuss their recommendations for the Upcountry Water
Rule?
MR. MAYER: I'm going to plead ignorance on this
one in the sense that I'm not -- we've talked about the
rule. We've talked about it over the years. We have
positions on a number of things on the web site actually on
Kulamaui.com. And you can look at all of our water
positions, and I don't want to misstate any of those at this
point. So let me defer -- we have not specifically talked
about the rule as you're now discussing it what should be
done at this point. We have not discussed that.
BOARD MEMBER PYLE: Are you going to do that?
MR. MAYER: Huh?
BOARD MEMBER PYLE: Are you going to do that?
MR. MAYER: If requested, we would bring that up,
yes. I don't think there's any shyness about doing it, and
especially if you give us a particular question that you
would like us to address, because it's a broad issue, you
know, should the rule be continued, is there aspects of the
rule, et cetera. One of the things that I didn't put in
here, and that is something that is parallel to the electric
department, and that is when they make assumptions about how
much water is available as I have from these sources, they
do the same with electricity, they always make the
assumption that their biggest diesel generator -- in your
case, the biggest pump -- is out of operation. When you
talk about the availability of water, what water supply
would you have during a drought if your biggest pumps
suddenly broke down? That could happen, or be up for
maintenance or whatever. That's the water supply or some
factor. It's not just the total gallons coming off the
mountain or up from a hole. But it's actually what would
happen if your biggest pump, you couldn't pump from Kamole
up, how much water is available? That's what we need as
reserve.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Thank you. Okay. I thank
you, Mr. Mayer. You have something else?
BOARD MEMBER RAISBECK: Yeah, I would like to say
to Dick that the Rules Committee has been meeting every
week, and we will continue to meet. It's open to the
public, and we would appreciate well thought out suggestions
for matters in the rule that the Kula Community Association
feels might be changed for the better. We have submitted,
and it's a public record document at this point, a draft to
changes we are suggesting. I don't think we'll discuss it
today.
But -- and I would just tell the Board that
yesterday Ralph and I had a two-hour conversation with
George and Herb Chang. And some things were cleared up, and
some things we discovered we understand so badly we are
going to need to do more research to know. And so there
probably will be a Draftof our changes, and we would be
interested in any well thought out suggestions from the Kula
Community Association.
MR. MAYER: Thank you. If you give us any
particular questions you would like us to address, it makes
it much easier to focus on the things you're concerned with.
I would also state this little template that I've brought up
here may be a useful thing when you meet with the Planning
Department and Planning Commission as a way to tally what
your decisions are and their decisions are. If you have
something like this, not this one, but something like this,
a water budget for each of the major areas, that would make
planning and water planning I think come together.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Thank you, Dick. I
appreciate it. Okay. No other public testimony? All
right. We'll close that part of the agenda.
Moving on to Director's Reports. Starting off
with the Iao Water Treatment Expansion. Mr. Tengan.
MR. TENGAN: Thank you, Mr. Chair. As the report
states, the Department went out to call for bids on the
project to install about 2,200 feet of 24-inch pipeline.
BOARD MEMBER RAISBECK: George, excuse me. I
cannot hear what you're saying. I hear the sounds, but if
you could hold it a little further from your mouth, I might
be able to understand it.
MR. TENGAN: I'll let Jeff do this report. He
speaks a little louder than I do.
MR. PEARSON: Good morning. George passes this
off on me because I'm a little more involved in this
project. I won't read over the report that's in front of
you. I think you can do that. I can state that this was
written August 12th. We're still on schedule. There's no
foreseen issues that are coming up. And you now how
construction is, so there could be some delays that are
unforeseen. I learned recently one of the unforeseen items
was the strainer. That's part of the water line. It is on
its way to Maui, so that's a good sign, so a strainer that
feeds to the plant. So that's pretty much self-explanatory
here. If you have any questions, I would be glad to answer
them.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Any questions for
Mr. Pearson?
BOARD MEMBER RAISBECK: Yeah, I think it's -- I
don't see it right here, but I think it's been said it will
increase the supply by 700, to have this additional unit,
we'll up the supply by 750,000 gallons a day. Is that a
reliable figure, or could it be less than that?
MR. PEARSON: That's a reliable figure for the
peak flow of the unit. If you want to get into greater
detail, Paul Seitz from the Treatment Plant Division is
here. But at the peak flows, it can be around 750,000
gallons per day.
BOARD MEMBER RAISBECK: Okay, thank you.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Yes, Mr. Okamura.
BOARD MEMBER OKAMURA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I
just wanted to know, a shutdown of this resource, how would
that affect the total supply for that period for this
particular area?
MR. PEARSON: I think the -- I'm sure the memo was
copied to the Board. We wrote a short memo to the
Commission informing them that we were -- the Commission on
Water Resource Management, the State DLNR, discussing that
we were going to be shut down for one month and that we were
going to increase the pumping in the Waihee aquifer. As you
know, themillion gallons a day that we're trying to hold
for pumping in Waihee aquifer is more of a suggestion and
kind of a gentleman's type of agreement. There's no real
requirement to keep the pumping at exactlymillion gallons
a day. So for this month, it's likely the pumping will
increase at Waihee aquifer.
BOARD MEMBER OKAMURA: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Any other questions?
Mr. Hiranaga.
BOARD MEMBER HIRANAGA: I was just wondering, I
note that the field operations department was assigned the
task of installing the pipeline. And I was wondering how
common is that for that type of decision to have in-house
staff to install pipeline versus going outside to
contractors? What impact does it have on daily operations?
MR. PEARSON: George has more history, but I know
that in the field operations division, we have two
construction crews that are dedicated for construction, so
it's not uncommon for them to do construction. In this
case, we felt that we were going to look at bidding the
project out because it's a larger pipe and not their normal
type of construction. We had to lease a large backhoe from
a construction -- a construction firm to do this work. In
other words, we don't have the equipment generally to do
this type of work, so it's not uncommon that we have
construction done, but it's a little uncommon that we do it
at this scale.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Was the cost cutting or
saving of money a consideration, or was the availability of
the construction crew the rationale behind doing this out of
the ordinary?
MR. PEARSON: The answer is yes. The bids, as
stated in here, the bids came in high, so that was one issue
that we didn't really have the budget for the bids that were
in. And also, the construction crew, we can keep them busy
doing work, but it's not always, quote, unquote,
construction, so they were available, they were made
available to do this work.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Any other questions?
BOARD MEMBER PARSONS: I have a question.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Yes, Ms. Parsons.
BOARD MEMBER PARSONS: When you said the bids came
in high, did the bids come in high, or were our expectations
too low?
MR. PEARSON: In my opinion, they came in high,
because we bid on the project with us having the materials
because we're using I think it's the Molokai pipe that we
have stored at Waikapu. So the bids were for installation
only. And if you look at the -- I don't have the breakdown
of the numbers themselves, but for installation only, the
price -- these prices should have shown installation and
materials, you know, generally speaking. So they came in
unexpectedly high.
I think the climate for construction right now is
somewhat good, so they really didn't have to come into -- it
wasn't dog eat dog. It's a good time for construction, so
the bids were high to do that.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: I think that's something that
both the Board and the County has to realize that because
construction right now is in what I call a good state, we're
going to be paying premium price for construction costs.
And it varies from the time frame of when you go out and get
bids. There are times you can get a job formillion, and
the next time you go out for the same identical job, it
might bemillion. So supply and demand, right now demand
is high, and supply is somewhat low. So that's a good point
there.
MR. PEARSON: Mr. Chairman, I would like to give
some accolades to our construction crew and because they
could have easily and justifiably said it's too big a
project, we don't really want to take it on. But Division
Head Bobby Vida, said, shoot, you know, I think we can do
this. Let's go at it, and the whole crew took a very
positive attitude towards this, which it's a great thing to
see within the Department.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: That's great. Thank you,
Jeff. Any other questions? Yes, Mr. Johansen.
BOARD MEMBER JOHANSEN: Just one question. The
expectation according to budget was $150,000. Do you have a
figure as to how much this is actually costing?
MR. PEARSON: When Bobby Vida, the division head
of field operations, was evaluating to do this project, we
do what's called a Form 47 and we break down the labor and
the cost of equipment and rental costs and so forth. And
unfortunately, Ralph, I don't have that number in front of
me. I know it was well -- I think it was under $100,000,
wasn't it, George?
MR. TENGAN: I think so.
MR. PEARSON: I think it was under $100,000, and,
of course, well under the 150 that we have budgeted. But we
can followup and give you an answer, but actually, the jury
is still out because we're still doing, you know, some
ancillary work and there's still staff that is there now.
But there's still a cost savings.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Any other questions? If not,
I'll move on to the next, which would be the Pookela well
and Hamakua Poko well update.
MR. TENGAN: Mr. Chair, I'll give this portion of
it to Alva Nakamura. He's heavily involved in coordinating
the electrical services, and that's the main item.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Alva, why don't you use this
one. I think it would be easier. Yeah, use this
microphone. I think it would be more --
MR. NAKAMURA: Okay. On Pookela, Mr. Chair, the
rate it's going right now is we probably -- the consultant
is reviewing the plans and specs right now and the final
review. We plan to go out to print out the plans and specs
next week probably, I talked to staff this morning, maybe
September 2nd or thereabouts. And then we go out to bid on
September 9th for this project, so that's kind of where
we're set right now on Pookela.
On the H'Poko wells, we're currently working with
Maui Electric in working with them to insure that electric
service, you know, is provided by March of 2005. And
they've been very cooperative. We've met with them a number
of times. I believe they're currently on schedule at this
time. As far as the change order with Frank Coluccio, we've
sent the revised figures in the contracts up to Corp Counsel
and it's currently there at Corp Counsel right now for
review.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Okay, any questions?
Ms. Parsons. I'm sorry, Ms. Raisbeck, she raised her hand
first.
BOARD MEMBER PARSONS: I just wondered if you know
where we're planning on sending H'Poko at this point?
MR. NAKAMURA: Where we're sending it, you mean
the water?
BOARD MEMBER PARSONS: The water.
MR. NAKAMURA: Basically, the pipeline is tied
down to Paia. So from my understanding, it's basically
going to feed Paia right now. Of course, with Paia off the
Central Maui system, that will allow additional capacity in
the Central Maui system.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Ms. Raisbeck.
BOARD MEMBER RAISBECK: Yeah, thank you. The
previous project, the Iao Water Treatment Plant schedule, is
a very excellent way to present progress on projects. And I
wondered if it would be possible to have a similar
presentation for the entire project of Pookela and the
entire project of H'Poko so that every week, or every month
rather, each update places, you know, where we are on the
total project schedule. Would that be possible to do?
MR. NAKAMURA: I guess it would be possible. We
have a schedule for Pookela that was provided by the
consultants, for example, similar to what you have; however,
you know, the dates change on us depending upon, you know,
how you're doing. As an example, the E-mail this morning
from our electrical consultant saying that they've been
asking the manufacturer to provide additional information
regarding the pumps that they're going to use for Pookela,
and the manufacturer has not being very responsive in
providing the electrical characteristics for the equipment.
The reason why they've been trying to get that is
MECO has been asking for that information so they can
properly design their system to accommodate these pumps at
Pookela. But you see, it's this kind of interaction going
back and forth that delays projects. And again, this is
just one example of the kind of things that come up with the
schedule. So if we do provide a schedule to you, you need
to understand that this is going to be subject to change
depending upon how things go, how responsive the
manufacturers are or whatever else comes up during the time,
you know, that we're doing the project. It will change, so
as long as you understand that, we can provide that
information.
BOARD MEMBER RAISBECK: Yeah, are you at all
familiar with project management software in which you can,
for example, it's all set up so that if an unexpected delay
occurs in one aspect, it feeds into -- you've set it up so
that that immediate -- say you experience an unexpected
six-month delay for whatever reason. It automatically
cranks out --
BOARD MEMBER PYLE: It readjusts.
BOARD MEMBER RAISBECK: It readjusts everything.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Ms. Raisbeck, I think what
he's trying to say, if I'm reading it correctly, is that he
doesn't mind providing us with that knowing that things
could change and that we're not going to hold him to the
fire if does change. And I think, if I'm correct in
understanding you, Mr. Nakamura, that's all he's saying to
us is whatever system he gives you, what do you call that, a
projected time frame and things change, yeah, like that, and
it changes, just that we won't go back and say, wait a
minute, you said it was going to be done by -- I think
that's all he's trying to get to.
BOARD MEMBER RAISBECK: No, what laying it out
this way provides, for one, is that you can follow the
progress. You can say ah-ha, well, we're here. Now, gee,
this big delay is going to -- you know, everything past that
is going to be moved over. You can do it automatically is
what I'm trying to get at.
MR. NAKAMURA: I think what you need to
understand, too, though is a lot of the projects that we
have are being done by consultants. So in terms of the
progress on the project, it's really with them, not with the
staff. All we do is contact them. They'll send something
and they'll give us an updated sheet with regard to the
progress report you're talking about, so I'm somewhat -- I
know about this program you're talking about, but because
it's been done by the consultants we hire to do these
projects, to do that kind of thing, it really rests with the
consultants that we hire to do the project.
The staff are now just so strapped. You know, we
wouldn't have the time to translate that information onto a
Department type of software to crank out this kind of
progress report you're referring to.
BOARD MEMBER RAISBECK: So the Iao Water Treatment
Plant schedule, I notice Paul has come back in, does the
water treatment division have software that creates this or
did the consultant give it to you?
MR. SEITZ: No, we're doing -- we're doing that
whole project in-house, so we don't have anything like that.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: See, now that there, Sally, I
think what he's been saying is because it's being done all
in-house, there's no outside consultants and all that.
That's a different -- again, they control this whole thing.
Everything is under their control.
I think what Mr. Nakamura is trying to indicate is
so long as everything is under his control, that's one
issue. But when it's dependent on consultants and others,
sometimes he cannot control whatever their report comes up
with. And I think I'm trying to balance this, Sally. I
know where you're coming from, and I'm trying to get this
nice balance right here.
BOARD MEMBER RAISBECK: Can I ask one question?
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Sure, go ahead.
BOARD MEMBER RAISBECK: Where did this come from?
MR. PEARSON: Mr. Chair.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Yes.
MR. PEARSON: I could answer that.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Okay.
MR. PEARSON: This schedule here was done pretty
much freehand by myself and then working with my assistant,
Michelle. This is just a Word program. This isn't one of
the --
BOARD MEMBER RAISBECK: It's not a project
management.
MR. PEARSON: It's not a project management.
BOARD MEMBER RAISBECK: Thank you. That was what
I was curious about.
MR. PEARSON: It was done in-house. Backing up
what Mike said, this is kind of an in-house project, so we
have a little more control over the timing of this thing.
BOARD MEMBER RAISBECK: But you have to change
everything by hand. And if you present next month the same
thing, it all has to be done by hand?
MR. PEARSON: Correct, we haven't purchased the
software, Microsoft Project or any of those type.
BOARD MEMBER RAISBECK: Thank you. Thank you.
That was my --
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Mr. Hiranaga, you had a
question?
BOARD MEMBER HIRANAGA: I note Pookela well, Maui
Electric is going to be installing new power poles. I was
just wondering how many poles are projected and how tall and
where?
MR. NAKAMURA: I think we have -- going to be
putting in about six or seven poles. These may be steel
type poles. As far as height, I would venture to guess it
might be 50, 55-footers, something in that range. And it's
going to go right up Olinda Road. And having to do that,
what's going to be required, they're probably going to have
to go to public hearings up in the Upcountry area to allow
them to put those, so there's a lot of work to be done at
this point.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Yes, Mr. Okamura. Are you
done, Mr. Hiranaga?
BOARD MEMBER HIRANAGA: Yes.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Okay, sorry.
BOARD MEMBER OKAMURA: I was wondering about the
H'Poko well. In the past when there was a drought, water
was pumped from H'Poko well into the Upcountry system. Will
it still have the same capacity after you do your
improvements to the service to Paia?
MR. TENGAN: Mr. Chair, we still have that
connection between the Hamakua Poko wells and the Kamole
well treatment plants, so we would retain the ability to
pump water from the wells up to the treatment plant.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Okay. Any other questions,
MR. TENGAN: And for the Board's information, at
the present time, we cannot pump water up to the treatment
plant unless an emergency is declared. For us to do it on a
regular basis, we would have to go through the EA process.
BOARD MEMBER RAISBECK: Excuse me, Mr. Chair, I
thought that one of the elements of the settlement of the
suit about H'Poko -- am I wrong here -- that that court
decision only allowed H'Poko to be used Upcountry during the
drought, that no longer was in effect. Am I wrong about
that?
MR. TENGAN: Yes, but we still need to go through
the EA process to do that. We were able to do that in the
past because of the emergency declared, bypass the EA
requirements.
BOARD MEMBER HIRANAGA: Mr. Chair.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Mr. Hiranaga.
BOARD MEMBER HIRANAGA: EA means environmental
assessment?
MR. TENGAN: Right.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Are we clear on that?
BOARD MEMBER RAISBECK: Well, so we have used it
in the past, but because the court had said we could use it
during emergencies, we didn't have to do an EA. But if we
wanted to use it Upcountry, we can use it without an EA --
no, we can't use it because we don't have an EA for that
use. Is an EA going to be done for its use in Paia?
MR. TENGAN: Yes, the EA was already done to use
the wells to bring it into Central Maui.
BOARD MEMBER RAISBECK: So can the EA be revised
to include possible use Upcountry during a drought?
MR. TENGAN: We will be proceeding with that
process when we're ready to do it I guess. We have other
work that we're concentrating on, and that's been put on the
side for a while. But in the case of an emergency, if the
Mayor declares an emergency, I believe we can go ahead and
use the water and pump it up to the Kamole treatment plant.
BOARD MEMBER RAISBECK: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Ms. Parsons.
BOARD MEMBER PARSONS: While we're on the subject
of EA's, have we done the one for Pookela well yet?
MR. TENGAN: Yes.
BOARD MEMBER PARSONS: It's all complete?
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Done.
MR. TENGAN: Oh, yes, yes.
BOARD MEMBER PARSONS: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Okay. Any other questions or
discussions on the update for the Pookela and H'Poko wells?
Okay, moving right along, anything else on the
Director's report? Do you have anything else before we move
on, Mr. Tengan?
MR. TENGAN: (Nods head.)
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Okay, under Other Business,
A, Discussion on the Upcountry Meter Issuance Rule. Ms.
Raisbeck.
BOARD MEMBER RAISBECK: Thank you, Mr. Chair, the
Board Members have been provided by mail and by E-mail with
Draftof the recommendations the committee has been
making, had decided to make for changes. We had left a
number of questions. And as I said earlier, yesterday Ralph
and I were able to talk with George and Herb Chang for a
couple of hours, and we realized that our understanding was
still incomplete as to how the rule has been working and
applied and what the original intentions were, so we
still -- we feel that we still need to do a further study
and quite probably prepare a Draftthat would have -- that
would have a better -- that would represent a better
understanding of the actual situation.
Along with -- I think it would be extremely
helpful to us to have information of the type that Dick
Mayer suggested the Department could provide as background
material. I would also like to ask the Board if is it
possible for the committee to request from the Department
the Upcountry list including the number of meters in each
request, the size, the number and size of the meters, the
amount of projected water use for each request. And you
might as well include the names of the requester since you
can get it off the tax keys.
I would feel that -- and also a second request
would be the Board feels that we would be justified in
requesting that the Department give the Rules Committee any
information it has transmitted to the counsel for use by the
special counsel. I was told by Herb Chang that he had
prepared a list of all meters given out since 1994 for the
use of special counsel. And we would like to have a copy of
that, too, plus any other information that the special
counsel has requested.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Okay. I will forward that
request to the director.
BOARD MEMBER RAISBECK: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: That is not a problem. I
don't see an issue in that area, and I will talk to
Mr. Tengan about that. Okay. Go ahead. Continue.
BOARD MEMBER RAISBECK: And I think all of the
Board Members would be interested in the more expanded
Upcountry list. I talked about this with George yesterday
during our meeting, and he felt there were privacy concerns
that that information ought not to be made public. I don't
necessarily agree with that, but if he has any concerns
about that, I would appreciate the ability to discuss this
at this point.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Excuse me, the question is
the Upcountry list?
BOARD MEMBER RAISBECK: The Upcountry in its
expanded form that has all the information needed to know,
how much -- how many meters and how much water are
represented by the names on that list.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Uh-huh.
BOARD MEMBER RAISBECK: That George felt, excuse
me, George, for, you know, speaking for you, he felt there
might be privacy concerns about having that information made
public.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Okay.
BOARD MEMBER RAISBECK: And I don't agree with
that, but if he feels that strongly, I think, you know, we
ought to discuss it here.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Yes, Mr. Tengan.
MR. TENGAN: Mr. Chair, if I may clarify. I think
I told Sally that, you know, there may be privacy concerns
that I would clear with Corp Counsel before providing any
information from the list or before providing that list.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Okay. I think that's --
BOARD MEMBER RAISBECK: Is it possible to ask the
Corp Counsel what his opinion is as to whether that
constitutes a public document or not? It does exist in that
form within the Department.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Okay. One question at a
time. Mr. Kushi, are you equipped to answer the question
now, or would you like to --
MR. KUSHI: Not at this time, Mr. Chair. I
understand the question, but I need to consult with the
director if he has any other concerns. The general rule is
that if you keep a list and it's part of the Department's
records, it is a public record. But I'm not sure what
concerns he has.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Could we make sure by our
next meeting this would be brought to us? And, in fact, by
the next Rules Committee, we would like to have that
information. Is that possible, Mr. Kushi?
MR. KUSHI: It's up to the director, Mr. Chair.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Mr. Tengan, do you think
that's possible?
MR. TENGAN: We'll discuss it.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Okay. And, you know, if
anything, you can call upon me if you want me to sit in, and
I would like to take part in that discussion if that's
something I can be a part of. Is that okay?
BOARD MEMBER RAISBECK: Thank you. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Mr. Johansen, you had a
question?
BOARD MEMBER JOHANSEN: There was a point in the
discussion yesterday, and I understand the concern is that
divulging the TMK numbers along with the allocations may
present a problem with competitors who would get that
information and use it to their own advantage. That may be,
and I would just like to know at the time if it's
appropriate to suggest that maybe this information can be
provided and remove the TMK numbers from the information, if
that's necessary.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Okay. I'm not sure what
you're referring to, Mr. Johansen. Could you clarify?
BOARD MEMBER JOHANSEN: As I understood it, I may
be wrong, the issue mainly was that if meter allocation
information was provided and with that was also provided the
TMK number, anyone could go to the record and find out who
the holder of that property was, the TMK, and direct them to
who is proposing a development in a given area. And that
information could be used advantageously by someone in an
adversary position knowing what developments someone has
that they have not disclosed, which are discernible from the
existence of the application. Am I still unclear?
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Yes, Ms. Parsons.
BOARD MEMBER PARSONS: Well, kind of. You're
saying that adversarial position and the TMK's, are you
saying that people might discern against development in
that?
BOARD MEMBER JOHANSEN: I'm trying to restate what
George Tengan said yesterday. Maybe he can say it better,
but my point is that if having the TMK list disclosed
publicly is going to create a problem, then maybe that could
be eliminated from the information that's provided to us.
BOARD MEMBER PARSONS: I think the TMK list has
already been posted on the web site, both the TMK and the
numbers.
BOARD MEMBER JOHANSEN: The number of --
BOARD MEMBER PARSONS: It's already public. Yes,
you can go to the web site and you can either go by the
number the people have, you know, what number they are on
the list, or by the TMK. It doesn't have the people's names
necessarily, but that's very easy to look up in public
records anyway.
BOARD MEMBER JOHANSEN: Let me ask if I
misunderstood the director.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Well, let me -- Mr. Johansen,
let me go and research this and try and get back and get
this resolved before our next Rules Committee. I'll do my
best to get something before our next meeting.
BOARD MEMBER RAISBECK: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: And at our next board
meeting, I'll try to have some clarification just for the
Rules Committee. Okay. Any other discussion on Pookela, or
excuse me, we're on discussion of Upcountry Meter Issuance
Rules.
Moving on to the Update for the Water Rate Study.
I think you all have a copy on page 13, page through 21.
I know, Ms. Raisbeck, you attend these meetings, so if
anyone has firsthand information, but before you say
anything, I will say I thank you very much for your little
letter on page 18. You brought up the concerns that I had
shared with you as far as categories and looking to expand
to make it more appropriate for Maui and the way Maui is
changing very rapidly.
And I think that's important that the Rules
Committee, I mean the Water Rate Committee see that, because
we just can't keep the rates we have now. We need to expand
that definitely. I think all of us are clear on that.
Okay, go ahead.
BOARD MEMBER RAISBECK: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Yes, yesterday -- at their next meeting, the Water Rate
Study Committee will be taking up the question of I believe
we'll be receiving information about revenue by class and
consumption by class and so on as part of the information
they will receive next time. This time they were primarily
focused on a question that had also been discussed the
previous time, which is what is the appropriate level of CIP
funding for the Department. And they had suggested several
different levels. This time the Department came in with a
request to reduce the amount of CIP funding per year from 25
million a year to million a year.
And after extensive discussion, the committee
refused that request and left it at 25 million a year even
though the Department said they weren't sure they could do
more than million a year. I think -- correct me if I'm
wrong, George, but I think most of the discussion during the
meeting was how to come up with ways to increase the amount
of CIP funding that could be encumbered each year because
people felt that the Council would be very unlikely -- I
mean the Council would be very unlikely to agree to raising
rates unless they are sure the money will be used, is able
to be used by the Department.
And the reasons were given why the amount
encumbered in recent years is very low, likemillion for
the last year or something. And so the question can they do
million, the Department thought, yeah, possibly. And 25
million they didn't think they could do. But the committee
as a challenge I believe left it at 25 million.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Yes, Ms. Parsons.
BOARD MEMBER PARSONS: One of the questions that
was asked by some of our Upcountry residents when looking
at, and you may be able to answer this because I haven't
gone to stakeholders meetings, but are we looking at the
overall, not just CIP as a reason to raise the rates, but
the overall department operation?
BOARD MEMBER RAISBECK: The operation, yeah.
BOARD MEMBER PARSONS: We are looking at that?
BOARD MEMBER RAISBECK: Yeah, the committee has
been given information, and they will be -- yeah, they will
be including operations as well as the CIP in the amount
they want to justify. They feel they want to get any
increases in rates passed, they have to be able to justify,
and so they are going probably more deeply into -- the
consultants from our R.W. Beck are obtaining a lot of
information and passing it down to the committee.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: I would like at this point
just to keep the discussion -- Holly, do you have anything
else? Before you ask anymore questions, do you have
anything else to add? And I apologize, because you do --
MS. PERDIDO: No, no, basically she covered
everything.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Yeah, still come. And I
apologize. And it should be you and I stand corrected, and
I apologize. Ms. Raisbeck, we should have Holly do it, and
if you want to add to it, then that's fine.
So Ms. Parsons, let Ms. Perdido, and then we'll go
from there. Okay, I'm sorry, Holly. I made a mistake.
MS. PERDIDO: No problem.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: The 147,000th time this year.
MS. PERDIDO: Basically it was what Sally stated,
R.W. Beck was not present at this meeting. They will be at
the next meeting, and they're going to bring up the
preliminary results for, as Sally said, cost of service,
district analysis, customer class. And then we will go over
the revenue in the final analysis.
The committee was very adamant, as Sally said
also, that the CIP stay under 25,000 -- or 25 million. And
yeah, it was just basically the staff presented the CIP
spending history. One thing I would like to mention though
Sally said themillion that was spent in this past budget
2004, the CIP budget is now an 18-month budget, so the staff
feels they can encumber another million by December
because of holdups that have been with Corp Counsel and
other issues.
So our CIP budget has changed from what it was in
the past. In the past, it was a 12-month budget. Now it's
an 18-month budget.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Go ahead, Ms. Parsons.
BOARD MEMBER PARSONS: The point I wanted to make
or ask about what the fact that when we review the planning,
they're working on the tax schedules right now. And the
taxes are going to have certain breakdowns or categories;
for instance, their time share, they're looking at making
time share under a residential rate rather than hotel as it
has been in the past. And also they're looking at the
different ag levels.
Maybe we should pick up from how they structure
their tax rates on how we impose our water rates.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: That will be part of it,
yeah. Yeah, that will be part of the equation. And I think
we're all in tune to the fact that we need to restructure
our categories. I think that's very important, because Maui
has changed. It's not strictly agricultural and
residential. We have a lot of demographics now, and we need
to continue to move in that direction. Okay. So Ken, you
had a question?
BOARD MEMBER OKAMURA: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Holly, I was wondering like, you know, would $5 million have
a lot of effect on the total revenues that needs to be
raised if the water rate increases, you know, like from 20
to 25 million? I know it's hard to answer precisely, but
what's your feeling on that based on --
MS. PERDIDO: Maybe, George, would you have a
comment? I wouldn't think it would make that significant of
a difference, but I know George was very actively involved
in the last rate increase.
MR. TENGAN: Yeah, I don't recall the figure now,
but, you know, based upon the consumption for every penny
increased, that would generate a certain amount of revenue.
I can report back to the Board on that.
BOARD MEMBER OKAMURA: Okay, great, in regards to
the CIP funding, let's say, what's the difference between
like million and 25 million in regards to effect on rate
increase. Okay, thank you.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Anybody else? Okay. Moving
right along. Thank you for that report, Holly. And we
appreciate it. And I will make sure next time that I call
upon you. I apologize.
Let's call for a ten-minute recess.
(Recess taken.)
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Okay. Call this meeting back
to order. And I'm going to take the Chair's privilege at
this point. I want to -- it's not something of a matter on
the agenda, but it's something that has to be addressed at
this point and I want to bring it up. As the Chair, one of
the things that I'm going to ask everybody in this room, all
Board Members, if you're going to take a cell call or make a
cell call or do any other side conversation, first the cell
calls, if you have to do something, and I get cell calls --
that's another one. There you go. No seriously, all joking
aside, leaving the room would be appropriate not distracting
others.
Okay. I ask all of you that that is what I
consider proper business etiquette. If you've got to make a
call, leave the room. Side conversations and other
discussions with the other members or someone in the
Department or someone in the audience also can be very
distracting and I think is inappropriate. If you have
something to ask somebody at our breaks or after the meeting
or if you want to bring it up on an agenda item, I have no
qualms with that.
Thirdly, if we request items from the Department,
any reports, any status, any updates that, first of all,
especially after Mr. Nakamura's discussion, if those updates
are given to us, then I do not want us to be holding their
feet to the fire, especially in areas where they may not
have control, okay, consultants, outside contractors,
supplies.
I mean we can't be chastising them or getting on
them if it's out of their control. Now, if within their
privilege or something in-house, that's a little different,
and we can discuss it in more detail. I want them to be
able to come to us and give us information and not have a
fear factor that we're going to go after them if it's not
completed in a timely manner. Also I would like them to
know if we ask for something, if they from the Department
are unable to give us the information within a week or two
weeks, what is a reasonable time frame to get the
information to us? The Department should let us know. When
we ask for something and they say, yes, sometimes I think
the expectation is it's going to come next week or next
meeting.
And if it's unable, because I understand the
Department right now is just overwhelmed with work in all
departments, so we have to be fair and look at them and say
we like information, we need information. If it's something
crucial and urgent like this Upcountry Meter Issuance Rule
that is going to expire in December, yeah, this is something
we need to push along, so we need some information right
away. If it's something not as urgent and you cannot get to
it from the Department's standpoint, then tell us, hey, it's
going to take me a month or two to get you that information.
That way our expectations are not something
immediate, and I would just rather be fair. I want to
balance this. I understand we get to a point where we all
want to do a good job here and every one of us have great
intentions, but sometimes intentions can be overshadowed by
lack of results or what we feel is lack of information. I
want the door to be open that if I ask the Department or any
board member asks the Department for information, that the
information will be forthcoming as soon as possible. And if
there's an urgency, then let us know what the urgency is,
okay.
I just want it to be fair to all. And I'm making
this a general statement, because I feel like as the Board
Chair, if I don't bring this up and continue letting it
happen, then it distracts from the meeting. Also, let's
address issues to the Board Chair, not to each other.
That's another important factor. I'm not having any
opposition to somebody talking to somebody, but I'm saying
if there's a subject matter being discussed, let's address
it to the Chair, to the rest of the Board Members, not to
individuals, okay.
Lastly, I'm here just to facilitate the meeting.
And I want to facilitate as quickly and as expeditiously as
I can. And I want to do it in a business manner. If I make
mistake, I apologize. Like to Holly, I apologized. We're
here for one purpose, to get the meeting, get all the
information and get our work done. And all of us have busy
schedules, and we need to leave as soon as possible. And
I'll try to conduct the meeting in that way.
Now, saying too much as it is, I would like to get
back to the agenda items. And if there's any other
discussion, you can bring it to me later. I would like
to -- I would like to hold off on any comments if I may.
You can bring it to me later and we can discuss it later.
But that was just a general overview, and it's not meant to
any one person in this room.
Okay. I would like to get back to the agenda at
this point, if I may, okay. We were finishing up with the
update with the Water Rate Study. Let's go to discussion of
agenda and possible dates for the joint meeting -- well, not
possible dates. It's already been set, October 12th.
That's done, okay.
Receipt of Board Member requests for agenda items
for future agendas, okay. I'll open the floor up to -- yes,
Ms. Parsons.
BOARD MEMBER PARSONS: Agenda request for proper
public notification on public health issues. Something to
address timely, thorough precautions, door to door if
necessary when DWS fails to meet requirement by law. I want
to talk about that. I think public notification on health
issues is paramount, public concerns.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Okay. We can bring that up.
Any other -- Mr. Okamura.
BOARD MEMBER OKAMURA: Mr. Chair, this is a
followup on the earlier discussion about the water meter
issuance prior to Pookela well coming on line. I was
wondering, I don't know if we need to discuss that, but I
wanted to talk about that and possibly ask, not at this
time, but in a future meeting that we ask that somebody do
some presentation or figures to try to explain how the water
meters will be issued.
Or I guess Sally talked about it in terms of the
number of meters being allowed and given out and the amount
of water it would take to meet those requirements, but I
also wanted to know, like, you know, what the overall
capacity would be, you know, in a drought situation, what
would be the water requirements in a drought situation. And
if we do get those, you know, and some assurance that we
could meet the needs during drought, so that's my request
for an agenda item. I think it's an agenda item, I'm not
sure.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: I'll sit down with you and
kind of taper that down, because I think that's very broad.
And I think we need to kind of bring it to a specific agenda
item for the future. Any other -- Ms. Raisbeck.
BOARD MEMBER RAISBECK: I'm going to be on
vacation for almost three weeks in September, and I won't be
at the Board of Water Supply meeting. But it's possible
that other members of the committee want to discuss some of
the items in the Draftthat has been presented to the --
does there have to be an official acceptance of the report
today, that Draftreport? Because some of the items on
that are still valid. Some of the items were unclear, and
as I said earlier, need more thought.
But it's possible that you could have an agenda
item for the Draftreport, which would allow discussion if
any members of the committee wish to discuss it. On the
other hand, if nobody wishes to, it can just be on the
agenda and not -- be deferred or something. So what I'm
saying is I think it needs to be on the September agenda,
and definitely there needs to be something on the October
agenda about drafts, about a report giving changes, draft
changes to the Upcountry Water Meter Issuance Rule.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: So that would be like the
Draftyou're referring to?
BOARD MEMBER RAISBECK: Draft 3, yeah.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: When we've got all the
clarifications.
BOARD MEMBER RAISBECK: One problem with calling
it Draftis that the Corp Counsel has said that if a
report is presented at the meeting this month, you can't
discuss it during this meeting. You would have to wait
until the following meeting to take any action on it. And
is that correct, Mr. Kushi?
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Yeah, go ahead, Mr. Kushi.
MR KUSHI: Yeah, Mr. Chair, Member Raisbeck, in
essence, that's correct, but let me try to summarize the
situation. I forget what section I cited, but it's Chapter
92-F Hawai`i Revised Statutes. Your committee is like a
subcommittee of the Board, more than two or less than a
quorum. You're delegated the task to review, et cetera, and
report back to the Board. So basically, you're covered by
that one section, which says any subcommittee report, the
entire body cannot deliberate or take decision-making
actions the same time it accepts the report.
So you've submitted a report. It's duly noted on
the agenda. The Board should not discuss or deliberate or
make any decisions on this subcommittee report. That's not
to say you cannot summarize it for the Board's information.
So that that's basically the situation because you are a
subcommittee, not a majority of the Board.
BOARD MEMBER RAISBECK: So excuse me, did you want
to --
BOARD MEMBER JOHANSEN: I just wonder if we can't
get Draftand if there are any changes or additions or
substractions, what can be done in committee so we can move
this forward without having the formality of a further draft
and further delay?
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Mr. Kushi.
MR KUSHI: Mr. Chair, if I understand your
intention, is the report before the Board now will be
amended to another Draft 3, et cetera. What you can do
today as committee members, discuss the Draft 2, point out
your intentions or concerns and amendments, future
amendments, okay, to the Board without deliberation. Okay,
go back to your committee. At the next meeting present an
amended Draftor Draftor whatever, and again, explain
to the Board. Okay, the Board can discuss Draftat your
next meeting.
So moving on, I was thinking your October meeting,
you can then -- then the entire board can discuss both
reports and take action or recommendations, et cetera. Will
that work?
BOARD MEMBER RAISBECK: Yeah, as you said earlier,
Mr. Chairman, there is a time crunch here.
CHAIR VICTORINO: Right.
BOARD MEMBER RAISBECK: Possibly by say October,
the special counsel will have reported to the County Council
possibly.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Right.
BOARD MEMBER RAISBECK: I would hope so. But yes,
if we can do it that way, we can prepare an amended Draft 2.
I don't know if you or the -- at what level you would want
to go over the suggested changes in Draftor if you would
want to have me summarize what I see as the changes that are
purely for clarity.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Why don't you summarize the
changes for clarity. I think that way the Board Members,
unless you have any other desires, would that be all right
with everybody? Okay. Go ahead, Sally, why don't you
clarify.
BOARD MEMBER RAISBECK: I have to get it out of my
notebook.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: While you're doing that,
Ms. Parsons.
BOARD MEMBER PARSONS: Another item I'm
suggesting. Upcountry water quality issue, the Dr. Edwards
final report I believe was completed yesterday. It's on the
Mayor's desk or looking at it and Council expects to have it
within a day or so. Can we put this on the agenda for the
Board to review and comment and have information on the
treatment going on Upcountry, the schedule for the treatment
and the future plans, future proposals for the Upcountry
water issues?
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Would that be possible, this
report being available?
MR. TENGAN: Mr. Chair, I intend to release the
report prior to the next board meeting. As soon as we've
completed our final review and it's in acceptable form, I
intend to release it.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Okay. Okay. That's fine.
Thank you. Ms. Raisbeck.
BOARD MEMBER RAISBECK: All right. If people
could look at --
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: I'm sorry. Go ahead,
Michele.
BOARD MEMBER McLEAN: Just a point of order. Are
we at Receipt of Board Member requests for agenda items?
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Yes.
BOARD MEMBER McLEAN: And so the discussion of the
clarification of the rules that Sally was going to go into,
would that be under the next item, just to conclude Item D
before we get into the discussion of the rule
clarifications?
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Yeah, okay. Okay. We can
wait until that. Okay, Sally, we'll wait. Because under
Number 8, we have Rules Committee Report.
BOARD MEMBER RAISBECK: I think Michele may be
asking are we still on the accepting agenda requests.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Yeah, yeah.
BOARD MEMBER McLEAN: So we're still accepting
agenda requests?
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Yes, yes.
BOARD MEMBER RAISBECK: Yes, thank you.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: I think Michele did not want
to get into that until we get into the next one.
Okay, I apologize. Go ahead. Anything else?
Yes.
BOARD MEMBER PYLE: First of all, I have a
question that has to do with the agenda. Since we are an
advisory board, I am constantly I guess a little confused by
what we are necessarily advising about. Is it advising
about what is presented to us, or are we supposed to be
advising on water issues in Maui County? Those are to me
two different things, and I'm not yet after all this time
clear on that situation.
So I'm going to at great risk assume that our job
is to advise on water issues in Maui County, so I have two
things I would like to ask about or have them put on our
agenda as issues that are not necessarily directly related
to anything that's been on our agenda so far. So one of
them is given the County Council Water Committee's
discussion on the concerns that they have about the water,
the amount of water available in the Central and South Maui
area, should we as a group be involved in this discussion?
We have been left in the dark completely about
this particular issue. Do we need a South Maui Water Rule
as well as an Upcountry Water Rule if there really is a
limited amount of water available? And how many -- how many
developments are coming on line in South Maui considering
the whole issue about Makena and all the developments coming
on in Kihei and Central Maui Lani area and so on? This is
something we should be involved in, at least I think we
should be. And we've heard nothing, had no presentations,
are not invited to the discussion. And I want to know why.
So can we have something like that, a discussion about that
placed on our agenda? That's the first one.
The second one is I have been increasingly
concerned about the number of private well applications that
are made in Maui County or at least on the island of Maui.
I don't know much about Molokai and this issue. But there
are an increasing number of private well applications being
made. And those are not the purview -- they are sent to the
State Water Commission.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Right.
BOARD MEMBER PYLE: But there has to be a
relationship between the pumping of water out of private
wells and the amount of overall water that is available for
the people of Maui.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Right.
BOARD MEMBER PYLE: And is there some kind of a
relationship that is being established? Is there someone or
some place or some group that is trying to determine if we
grant these many wells over here, what impact is that going
to have on the water supply that is for the general public?
And nothing has come up about that, and I would like some
information from the State Water Commission or from our
Department or from a private consultant or somewhere about
the impact that this is having. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Anything else?
BOARD MEMBER RAISBECK: Mr. Chair.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Yes.
BOARD MEMBER RAISBECK: I have found it personally
extremely valuable to me to go over the rules, the rule that
we've been going over in the Rules Committee and to have the
time to understand it thoroughly. I think we need to start
putting budget on the agenda because of the fact that we
want to be involved in monitoring the development of the
budget so that we have some idea of what is being proposed
for the next fiscal year budget before it goes to the Mayor
since we are supposed to recommend the budget to the Mayor.
And last year because of time considerations, we
didn't get to do that, so I think we -- and the reason I
brought up my service on the Rules Committee is that I
really think the Board of Water Supply should establish a
budget subcommittee that would have extra meetings in which
they can get the information needed and then pass it on to
the Board. Because I don't think our monthly two or
three-hour meetings have sufficient time to really ask the
questions and get the information needed, so I would merely
suggest that putting a budget committee on the agenda or a
budget committee or a budget presentation. I think we're
getting to the time here that that has to be started.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Okay. Anything else, ladies
and gentlemen? If not, then we'll move on to Rules
Committee Report. This is what we're doing now.
BOARD MEMBER RAISBECK: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I
don't -- well, you have in your agenda the rule itself. And
we sent you by mail, that probably many of you didn't bring
it along, the report of your Rules Committee. I messed up
in not having an additional copy available to each of you
here. What we tried to do in the presentation of Draft--
Draftwas solely within the committee. And Draft 2, we
presented the original material in one type face and then
immediately following each paragraph in a different type
face. We presented any explanatory material plus a
suggested change if there was a suggested change in what
they call Ramseyer format in which the Council normally
handles changes to documents.
And if anyone is thoroughly interested, I hope you
will find it almost self-explanatory. The ones that I feel
we need more -- well, I can either go through quickly
pointing out which ones still remain cloudy or which ones --
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Why don't you do the ones
that are cloudy, so we can, for expediency purposes,
complete the report, okay.
BOARD MEMBER RAISBECK: Okay. The first place
where there's even any comment is under Purpose, and we feel
if the Council goes to allocations of water in the Central
system, they will eventually go to allocations of water by
use in Upcountry. And at that time, the purpose would need
a change. The second place we found very confusing, and
this one is not of major importance, but simply for clarity.
The definition of offsite improvements and onsite
improvements, and the definition of onsite improvements
includes improvements not on the subdivision, so we tried to
work out language that clarified what was meant there.
The -- and this will all be in the material that
we sent to you. The definition of potable water, again,
purely for clarity to insert, one, it means surface water,
blah, blah, blah, blah, and two, ground water, blah, blah,
blah, blah, blah is much clearer than starting out "Potable
water means surface water," blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, so
that's just a very simple change.
The definition of premises led into quite a
discussion, and I would say that we are still cloudy here
and still need further work on the definition of premises.
The priority list, we need a lot of further understanding on
this, and that is one of the reasons I've requested a copy
of the priority list to be made available to the Board
Members.
The question of intent at the time, the question
of what the rule says compared to how the rule has been
implemented are cloudy. We think it would be good to
include as an appendix to the rule the legal notice that
established the rule as an appendix because we found the
information contained in that was relevant to what we were
talking about. Just a little question, whether Maunaolu
college area still means something. If enough people feel
that's still a relevant term, that's fine.
Something that again I would have to say remains
cloudy is under 16.106.04, Water Service Request. Paragraph
B and paragraph C, you have to read extremely closely to
find out they're both no longer operative, the 60-day
request of two different types, and they were only allowed
to be made within the 60 days prior and following the
effective date of the rule. That means from October 2002 to
December 2002. That wasn't clear to us at all. We suggest
a change that would make that clearer. We also feel here we
need to understand better was the implementation of these
two stopped after that 60-day period, or has it incorrectly
been applied since?
The next one we have quite a discussion on
Subsection D here because it wasn't at all clear to us
whether or not people on the priority list whose number came
up, would they get the chance to defer their water service
for the two years allowed under the Water System Development
Fee? It wasn't at all clear from this rule and the Water
System Development Fee Rule what should happen, and we did
find out from Herb Chang how they've interpreted that. But
we feel that the need is to make the language in the rule
correspond with what the practice has been.
Initially it was Ralph who spotted the fact that,
wait a minute, they're allowing the two-year reservation to
the initial 60-day people, but it doesn't say anything here
about allowing the people on the waiting list whose number
comes up. So this still needs working out to be correct,
and we have I think -- I think we've done a useful thing by
including at the appropriate place when they make reference
to, for example 16.108.9(b) by including the text of
16.108.9(b), so that you can -- you don't have to keep
flipping back and forth.
Then under the next Subsection 16.106.05,
Procedure for processing applications for water service that
are on the priority list, we had some language
recommendation there that would make it clearer. We thought
in Subsection B actually there's a longstanding mistake in
the records. Subsection B refers to 16.106.04(b), which is
one of the 60-day paragraphs and should not be referred
to here. We think what they meant was to be referred to
16.108.09(b), which is the applicant not ready for service
part of the Water System Development Fee.
So I hope people who care to go through this in
detail will, so these are still somewhat cloudy. Under
Subchapter 3, exceptions, waivers and deferral. I had not
been aware prior to our study of the rule that the
exceptions to regulation, again, there are quite a few
people who don't -- are exempted from the rule. And we want
to make clearer who are the people that are exempted from
the rule, and then it becomes a major policy decision. The
Board had the power to exempt people from the rule, the
Upcountry Water Meter Issuance Rule. The Board had that
power. They no longer have it. Who now will have the
power? And I don't think we can make that decision. The
Council will make that decision, but it's a very important
issue, a very important policy issue.
The committee did feel that whoever makes
decisions which exempt people from the Upcountry Rule, that
it should be very transparent to the public. Whether it's
the Department, the Mayor, the Council, whoever, it needs to
be notified in some fashion to the public.
So that's the -- we still need to work on
exceptions to regulations. On waivers, we did come up with
language that would leave the Board the power to recommend
to the director that the director may waive. And we thought
that would still be -- but again, all of this is subject to
review by Corp Counsel, and by the special counsel. But we
did make some language changes there to recommend.
The final paragraph 16.106.turns out that will
have to wait for changes until we find out what procedure
will be used to make changes in rules, and the question of
the date as to the date that will be used as a sunset date
in the future, that probably should be related to how
much -- how many meters and how much water source is already
represented by the applicants on the Upcountry list. You
know, if it were three meters and 100,000 gallons, that's
one thing. If it's 800 meters and a billion gallons, that's
something else.
My understanding what is on the list now, the
amount of water, the number of meters, it gives us a much
better way to set a time frame for when the rule would
sunset. Is that sufficient?
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: I think so.
BOARD MEMBER RAISBECK: As I say, I think if
anybody wants to go through what we passed out carefully,
we'll understand the questions.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Okay. So Mr. Kushi, she has
presented an overview of the report. Now we're not going to
discuss it. We're going to accept the report so we can
discuss it at the next meeting to be clear on how this
procedure moves?
MR KUSHI: Yes.
BOARD MEMBER RAISBECK: Is it acceptable that if
members have any questions about our process or our
conclusions that they could ask questions?
MR KUSHI: Should I leave the room?
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: No, I think, Ms. Raisbeck,
we're going to accept it. And if anybody has any input,
they can get back to you on it. Because we will discuss it
at our next meeting, and we'll just follow procedures as set
forth.
BOARD MEMBER RAISBECK: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: We don't want to deviate and
create any kind of -- okay, so I guess we need a motion to
accept.
BOARD MEMBER RAISBECK: Can I ask whether the
other two members of the committee who put in a lot of work
if there's anything they want to add, could I ask for that?
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: I don't have anything. Maybe
Ralph.
BOARD MEMBER RAISBECK: Ralph.
BOARD MEMBER JOHANSEN: The only thing is the
question I asked before of counsel is we -- if we're going
to have an amendment, if we can present the amendment at the
next meeting. But as to the rest of the draft, that should
be discussed as well at the next meeting; is that right, am
I clear about that?
MR KUSHI: Okay. Well, why don't I say this and
take this position. At your next meeting, if you want to
make an amendment to this draft, Draftas amended, go
ahead and fully discuss it. If you entitled your amendments
Draft 3, that's another problem.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: So in other words, if it's an
amendment to Draft 2, we can discuss it and finalize it
right here. So I don't think we'll go with Draft 3. We'll
make any amendments to the Draft 2. I think that's the
clarification.
Okay. So can we accept the report as presented so
that it may be discussed at our next board meeting in
September?
BOARD MEMBER PYLE: I so move.
BOARD MEMBER RAISBECK: Second.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: It's been moved and seconded.
All those in favor, say aye.
(A chorus of ayes.)
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Opposed.
(None.)
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Okay, thank you,
Ms. Raisbeck.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Okay. Now, we move to
Division Reports. Do we have division reports? Do you have
them in front of you? Do you have any specific questions to
any of those who are left in the room, Holly and Alva?
Okay. Hang on.
BOARD MEMBER OKAMURA: I guess this refers to the
notice referring to the Hana system. I guess it's sort of
related to this report, right. You don't want to -- okay.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Do you have a comment?
BOARD MEMBER OKAMURA: I just wanted to know what
happened. It's not an agenda item, but a quick overview, I
guess that's all I'm asking for.
MR. PEARSON: Maybe what I can do is read from the
Department of Health --
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Do we have a copy? Can we do
that on this next agenda item? We'll put that as part of
the reports. Okay, Jeff? We'll do that if you don't mind,
Jeff.
MR. PEARSON: So include this in your next agenda,
but still give a verbal report?
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: No, no. Okay. Anything
else?
BOARD MEMBER RAISBECK: I'm sorry, I didn't follow
that.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: We will put that in our next
agenda item under this Upcountry health issues, and that
will be inclusive of all of this instead of taking
piecemeal.
BOARD MEMBER RAISBECK: And if -- I did have one
question when I received the notice in the mail about the
Hana situation, and that was did they find out where -- so
this might be part of the report next time -- did they find
out how it got into the water?
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Okay, thank you. Any other
questions on the divisional reports itself, on the reports
themselves?
Okay. And seeing none, then I will, unless
anybody has any other things, will call this meeting
adjourned.
(The meeting ended at 11:a.m.)
Department of Water Supply
County of Maui
200 South High Street
Wailuku, HI 96793-2155
Telephone (808) 270-7816
Fax (808) 270-7951