BOARD OF WATER SUPPLY
COUNTY OF MAUI
REGULAR BOARD MEETING
THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 17, 2005
Held at the Council Committee Room, 7th Floor, Kalana O Maui
Building, 200 South High Street, Wailuku, Maui, Hawaii,
commencing at 1:00 p.m. on Thursday, November 17, 2005.
REPORTED BY: GLORIA T. BEDIAMOL, CSR/RMR #262
A P P E A R A N C E S
CHAIRPERSON: MICHAEL VICTORINO
VICE CHAIRPERSON: KENNETH OKAMURA
MEMBERS: SALLY RAISBECK
RALPH JOHANSEN
KENT HIRANAGA
STAFF: ED KUSHI, CORPORATION COUNSEL
GEORGE TENGAN, DIRECTOR
MICHELLE SAKUMA, SECRETARY
HOLLY PERDIDO, FISCAL OFFICER
HELENE KAU, ASSISTANT FISCAL OFFICER
ALVA NAKAMURA, ENGINEERING
IWADO COURT REPORTERS, INC.
(808) 244-9300
BOARD OF WATER SUPPLY
TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
* * *
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: I would like to call this
meeting to order of the Board of Water Supply, County of
Maui, regular board meeting. Today is Thursday, November
17, 2005. We're starting at approximately 1:05 p.m.
In attendance, Kent Hiranaga, board member;
Vice-chair Kenneth Okamura; Member Sally Raisbeck; Member
Ralph Johansen; and myself, Chair Michael Victorino.
At this time, I would also like to recognize our
director, Mr. George Tengan, and our corp counsel, Mr. Ed
Kushi.
Any announcements at this time? No announcements?
MS. RAISBECK: I hadn't heard before, we have a
new board member, although he's not able to be here today.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: I was going to cover that
later on under Unfinished Business.
MS. RAISBECK: Okay.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Any other announcements? I
would like to move the meeting into the budget part if we
can. Do I have a motion to suspend the meeting agenda to
move up the Director's Report 05-21, DWS financial -- fiscal
report 2006 -- oh, no, I'm sorry. I apologize. Erase. Go
back under Other Business. I'm sorry, I was on the wrong
place.
Discussion and possible action regarding approval
to submit Fiscal Year 2007 Operating Budget to the Mayor.
And also to discuss and possible action regarding and
approving the submittal of Fiscal Year 2007 CIP Budget to
the Mayor. Do I have a motion?
MS. RAISBECK: So moved.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Do I have a second?
VICE-CHAIR OKAMURA: Second.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: It's been moved and seconded.
All those in favor say "aye."
(A chorus of ayes.)
Opposed?
(No response.)
Let the record show that it was unanimous. So
we'll start with item A under Other Business. Discussion
and possible action regarding approval to submit Fiscal Year
2007 Operating Budget to the Mayor.
Holly, would you like to come up and -- between
you and -- Mr. Kushi?
MR. KUSHI: I suggest you ask for public
testimony, Mr. Chair.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: That is correct. Sorry, I
skipped that, didn't I. Is there any public testimony that
needs or wants to be given? Sensing none, now I can move
on.
MR. KUSHI: Close public testimony.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: I will close public testimony
at this time. Thank you, Mr. Kushi, for reminding me in my
haste.
Now, would you young ladies like to come up?
Holly and -- Helene. I forgot your name Helene, I
apologize.
Is it all right with the board members that we
first start with the operating budget and conclude with
that, and then move on to the CIP?
MS. RAISBECK: No objection.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Any objections to that, board
members? Okay. Why don't we start with the operating
budget, ladies, and then once that has been completed, then
we'll move to the CIP. That way we won't get confused.
Ladies, would you like to start?
MS. PERDIDO: Basically, you have -- Holly
Perdido, fiscal officer, and this is Helene Kau, the
assistant fiscal officer.
MS. RAISBECK: Excuse me, Holly, would you spell
that? I don't know her last name.
MS. PERDIDO: Helene, H-E-L-E-N-E, last name is
K-A-U. She's our assistant fiscal officer and has done a
lot of the legwork on the budget. It's nice to have help
this year.
Basically, I guess we can start on page 68, this
is what we're -- the projections, the revenues and expenses.
And then following that is the actual line item budget of
what we're planning on turning in to the mayor. There are a
few changes that we'll pass out right now, that have come
about since we turned this in to you last month. So we'll
pass these around.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Let the record show that
Holly did pass out a department summary for the fiscal year
2007, second draft to the board. Which, I guess, will
suspend what the first one was?
MS. PERDIDO: Well, basically, it's to cover some
of the changes that we have come up with since we turned
this in last month. Unfortunately, there might be some more
by the end the month. But this is basically what we're
hoping to go with.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Okay, Holly.
MS. PERDIDO: I'm not sure if there are questions.
Do you want me to go over some of the changes? How do you
want me to proceed?
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: I open to the board members,
what is their pleasure? How would you like to approach
this? Ms. Raisbeck, go ahead.
MS. RAISBECK: No, I just was saying that I assume
that she'd go over it than sort of jump around from question
to question.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Okay. So kind of like
encapsulize (sic), review, and then we can have questions.
Is that okay with you?
VICE-CHAIR OKAMURA: Sounds good to me.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Okay. Go ahead.
MS. PERDIDO: Okay. Maybe what we'll do is, on
page -- we'll just go down each section and I'll tell you
the highlights and changes on the increases or decreases of
what we're proposing for each of the different divisions.
And I think we have a few of our division heads here if
there are further questions.
First of all, the director's office is actually
like a decrease in the budget -- well, actually, it's an
increase of 34. On the detail, obviously electricity is one
of the large increases. There was some cutting down in
rental of building. We used to have a portion of the rental
for the baseyard in the whole budget, and this year we have
taken that out. We have not had to pay for rental of the
baseyard. It's in dispute, I think, with corp counsel
still.
One of the other big increases is dropping some of
the board costs having a court reporter. Let's see, what
else. We are going to need to put in for a vehicle for the
safety officer position. That hopefully will be filled this
year, as Jacky will bring up when we come up to the
personnel side part of it.
Do you want to say something?
MS. KAU: If you want to address questions as we
go through each division --
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Yeah, I think that's probably
the best way to do it. Thank you.
VICE-CHAIR OKAMURA: You can finish.
MS. PERDIDO: If you look at the changes, that we
moved 75,000 from the claims to the professional services.
And, Helene, maybe you can help me with what's
that going to be for.
VICE-CHAIR OKAMURA: Where is that?
MS. KAU: I'm sorry, yeah, we haven't -- I didn't
print another detail; we just provided on this what's titled
"Second Draft," that's just a summary of the changes. I
didn't resubmit the entire detail.
VICE-CHAIR OKAMURA: What are you talking about
now?
MS. KAU: So we're talking about moving $75,000
from one line item to another. And so, essentially, we
moved that $75,000 from claims settlements and judgment up
to professional services, and that is for an appraisal that
we're going to be required to do.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: And that appraisal would be
for?
MS. KAU: That appraisal is for --
MR. TENGAN: That's for the Wailuku Ag water
system.
MS. KAU: Thank you, George.
MS. PERDIDO: Should we -- should I bring --
should we talk about wages and salaries now, or should we --
you have a separate listing of the vacancies, I think, in
here.
MR. JOHANSEN: Mr. Chair, if we could have the
page numbers.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Well, this is -- okay, we're
on page 69, but we're also on the amendment they gave us
which has to be connected with that page. And that's page 1
of 3 that she submitted to us.
MR. JOHANSEN: They just talked about claims
settlements and so forth.
MR. TENGAN: Yes. If you look at the director's
office, the budget for the director's office, the line item
would be 6313, reduced that by $75,000, and add to 6132 the
75,000, making it 400,000.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Okay. You got that? Okay.
Any questions? Mr. Okamura?
VICE-CHAIR OKAMURA: What would be the reductions
on the board's cost?
MR. TENGAN: Mr. Chair, that's for the reduction
in the court reporter cost. And also, there's a portion
that's being reduced for travel also.
MR. JOHANSEN: What's the deduction in the court
reporter cost for?
MS. PERDIDO: We won't have a court reporter
anymore; we'll have minutes done by the board secretary.
MR. TENGAN: Well, we're having that position
reclassified, you know, the assignment of taking the minutes
will be given to the position. That's the position that
Cathy Howard was previously in.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: If I understand you
correctly, whomever takes this position, part of that
person's responsibility would be also taking minutes of our
meetings?
MR. TENGAN: Correct.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: And so now we're not going to
hire a court reporter in the future?
MR. TENGAN: We won't have verbatim minutes,
unless, you know, the board requires it, and that person
would have to go through the tapes and transcribe the
minutes.
MS. RAISBECK: Well, transcribe it or summarize?
MR. TENGAN: The minutes would be summarized;
however, if the board member needs something verbatim, then
that person would have to go through the tapes and
transcribe those tapes verbatim.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: So starting next month we
would have --
MR. TENGAN: I believe we're going to be starting
July 1st of next year.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: July 1st, next year. Okay, I
apologize. Yeah, this is for July 1st. Okay.
Yes, Mr. Okamura?
VICE-CHAIR OKAMURA: How do you anticipate the
increase in electricity cost a month? Is it 50 percent?
MS. PERDIDO: If you look at FY '05, the actual
cost came out to about 56,000, and we -- how much -- we got
something down from the mayor's office, telling us we need
to increase electricity by a certain percent. And we had
already gone through an estimated of how much -- electricity
should have been increased 15 percent, but we had gone
through and figured out how much electricity would cost and
came up with that amount.
VICE-CHAIR OKAMURA: The department pays its own
electricity bill?
MR. TENGAN: It's prorated among the various
departments occupying this building here. We get charged
for one-eighth, although there are nine floors in this
building.
VICE-CHAIR OKAMURA: It's taken out of your budget
that --
MR. TENGAN: They charge us monthly when they
receive electric bills.
VICE-CHAIR OKAMURA: That's how it's always been?
MR. TENGAN: Yes.
MS. PERDIDO: So the director's office should
cover the fifth floor electricity expense.
VICE-CHAIR OKAMURA: I see. That's a lot, yeah?
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Yes. Okay, thank you. Any
other questions regarding the director's program?
MS. PERDIDO: Just one more. The director's
program did not ask for any additional employees. Currently
the only vacancy is a safety specialist as well as the board
secretary.
VICE-CHAIR OKAMURA: The safety officer is a
vacancy, is that right, or a new position?
MS. PERDIDO: Correct.
MR. TENGAN: It's a new position and it's vacant.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Okay. Any other questions
before we move on from the director's program? I guess --
let's move down to fiscal program.
MS. PERDIDO: What I'll do is just go -- let's go
to page 75, and I can go page by page. 75, 76 is our, you
know, our personnel. We are asking for two additional meter
readers and one customer service rep. These two meter
readers we are going to propose to start reading Hana and
Molokai in '07. Currently our -- I think it's the pipe
fitters who read those positions now -- or read our meters
on those areas now.
And we have had problems this past year in getting
our meters read in these areas. So they also are very
active in doing collections, locking meters, and all other
work. So it's not just a reader meter's positions; it's
like a multi-duty position, because we send them out to lock
meters for collections.
We're also asking for another customer service
rep. With 33,000 customers, we have three customer service
reps right now and they cannot keep up. The workload has
been just so much.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: So you'll expand it to four
customer reps?
MS. PERDIDO: Yeah. And currently, I think every
one of our positions are filled now. We just got our other
pre-audit clerk filled. So our positions are all filled.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Any questions in regards to
the fiscal program, from the board members?
MS. PERDIDO: No questions?
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Any questions? No? Okay.
MS. PERDIDO: Page 77 --
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: That's the engineering, yeah?
MS. PERDIDO: No. It's still --
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Okay, I'm sorry.
MS. PERDIDO: This is the detail for the expenses.
The largest increase is for our water meter inventories; but
basically, this is to get additional transponders. Our
transponders are all dying out. And we looked at the
different areas and came up with -- instead of going with a
new system or trying to replace batteries, which has given
us problems, we're going with the Orion transponders. They
are less than what our current transponders cost also.
So we're going to have to go and basically change
out everything as the old system is dying. And one of the
problems with the Trace (phonetic) is that it's hard to get
them now and it's with a different company. So we looked at
all the options and came up with the Orion to be our best
bet to replace our transponders.
Molokai, we're almost -- I think we have 3- or 400
more to change out over there, and then that's going to be
all Orion. So that will be our test again like they were
with Trace. And this will also -- we're going to get the
GIS all set up and get it really, hopefully, going well.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: So that's the increase of the
difference of 200,000; right?
MS. PERDIDO: Yes. And the rest are basically
small changes.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: One question on the system.
None of that is under warranty? All those meters are --
MS. PERDIDO: The meters are all fine. The
transponders?
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Yeah, the transponders, none
of them are under warranty?
MS. PERDIDO: Any that are under warranty we send
back and get replacements. We still had some in our
warehouse stock which we traded out for the Orion. So we
had the system going -- since '95 -- over ten --
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Okay. Yeah, because I know
that -- I had heard that there was old systems --
MS. PERDIDO: And the life is only, like, eight
years on those.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: What about the new Orion
ones?
MS. PERDIDO: The new Orion I think are warranted
for 15.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: 15 years?
MS. PERDIDO: Yeah. So there will be a longer
life.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Or at least a longer life
expectancy.
MS. PERDIDO: Yes. Correct.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Good. Any questions for
Holly on the fiscal program?
MS. PERDIDO: We still have one more page.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: One more page, okay.
MS. PERDIDO: Page 78 is just our equipment
request. PCs. A vehicle, we need to get a
replace-the-meter-reader vehicle. They are driven every
day, five days a week. So a lot of mileage is put on them.
And then some more radio read hand-helds and a forklift for
the warehouse.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Let me ask you, under
replacement vehicles, George -- I mean, Director Tengan, is
there a, like, every five years, or every seven years, or
does it go by mileage? How do you guys determine when
vehicles should be placed?
MR. TENGAN: By condition.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: By condition. So depending
on the condition --
MR. TENGAN: At one time we wanted to get into a
program to change out at least every seven years; but due to
fiscal constraints, they couldn't go by that program. And
so now they are basically going by condition. As our
vehicles get old and require a lot of maintenance, then they
come up for replacement.
MS. PERDIDO: If you look on the other sheet that
was handed out, we're also going to need another flatbed
scanner which scans all our water system records. And
that's $9,000.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Wow.
VICE-CHAIR OKAMURA: How come so expensive?
MS. PERDIDO: That's the system that we have,
and -- I'm not really sure why, but that's the cost of the
scanner that we need to scan all those records.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: It's a specialty scan?
MS. PERDIDO: It's a heavy-duty; it's not a
lightweight scanner.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: It's a specialty type
scanner?
MS. PERDIDO: Yeah.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Okay. Is that it as far as
your report?
MS. PERDIDO: Yes.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Now I open the floor to
questions in the fiscal area. Ralph?
MR. JOHANSEN: Getting back to the director's
office, this is something that we just learned so I haven't
had a chance to reflect on it, but you say that you're
eliminating the position of the court reporter. That
position will be filled in a different manner by the clerk
to the board; right?
MR. TENGAN: The court reporter is an outside
service that's --
MR. JOHANSEN: Contracted.
MR. TENGAN: -- that's contracted. Right.
MR. JOHANSEN: And this will be an in-department
function now?
MR. TENGAN: Correct.
MR. JOHANSEN: It will be performed by the clerk
of the board?
MR. TENGAN: Correct.
MR. JOHANSEN: And the clerk to the board is your
position WW-0188? This is page 72.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: You're going back now. 72,
please.
MR. TENGAN: 188.
MR. JOHANSEN: My only question would be, since
additional functions are being imposed on that position, is
there going to be an upgrade?
MR. TENGAN: No. As a matter of fact, we're
downgrading the position. The work required -- the workload
as been lessened somewhat since the board has become an
advisory board, and so we're downgrading the position. The
person in this position won't be sitting here taking
verbatim minutes.
MR. JOHANSEN: I understand. It will be a tape.
MR. TENGAN: It's just a matter of taping the
minutes, and if need be, then --
MR. JOHANSEN: And a summary will be prepared for
the board?
MR. TENGAN: What's that?
MR. JOHANSEN: Will there be a summary prepared
for the board?
MR. TENGAN: Correct.
MR. JOHANSEN: So that's part of that person's
function?
MR. TENGAN: Correct.
MR. JOHANSEN: Okay. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Okay. So, again, going back
to the fiscal program, any questions in regards to the
fiscal program as presented by Holly? I guess, hearing
none, moving on to engineering program.
MS. PERDIDO: The engineering program for
personnel, I might need Jacky's help or Alva's; but
currently, I think we have four engineering vacancies?
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Alva, would you come up here?
MR. NAKAMURA: Sure.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: I think that's important.
And, Jacky, you want to join us? We might as well have
everyone up here. That would be easier when questions come
up.
MR. NAKAMURA: Right now we have four vacancies.
We just picked up in the last month or so, two new people
joined our division. So we went from a vacancy of six down
to a vacancy of four, and we're still in the process of
trying to find additional personnel to fill.
MS. PERDIDO: If we go over to page 81, you'll
notice there's small increases.
MS. KAU: Excuse me, if I may interrupt. If we go
back to page 79, it is not reflected here, nor is it
reflected on what I provided as second draft. But it has
been brought to my attention that there may be further
changes to the engineering positions. There may be some
position changes, reallocations. We have not yet finalized
the schedule on those.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: When you say "reallocation"
and --
MS. KAU: For example, Civil Engineer 4, some of
them may become 5's. Another position may be downgraded to
accommodate the change. Right now, Alva is pursuing that
with Jacky. But as Holly alluded to earlier, we -- being
that we are required to work on the '07 budget at such an
early date, we're going to have to anticipate some of these
changes.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: So what you're -- again, like
any budget it's a budget and of course changes will occur.
But right now that's as best educated at this point?
MR. NAKAMURA: Yeah. To be specific, what Helene
is referring to is WW-0257, Civil Engineer 6 position, we're
looking at reallocating that down to a 5. And WW-0255 and
0256, which are Engineering 4 positions, we're looking at
moving it up to 5. So that's creating three, 5 positions,
one for each of the divisions.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Just because I'm not sure
what you mean by "moving" -- but what does that mean to move
from 4 to 5, and 6 down to 5?
MR. NAKAMURA: Basically, the salary and
responsibilities.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Okay, thank you.
Ms. Raisbeck?
MS. RAISBECK: I may be jumping the gun here, but
I know there was talk by the water meter -- water -- the
rates committee, that in order to hire engineers, we needed
to pay more, and there was talk about working things out
with the personnel department or with the council or with
whatever needed to be done in order to pay higher than the
existing scale to engineers. Has anything happened relative
to that effort?
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Has any -- Mr. Tengan, or
Alva, either one can answer.
MR. TENGAN: Maybe I can provide some information.
Just last week we received a communication from the
personnel department that they would be hiring -- a hiring
incentive program, and that's being finalized right now.
And so this would be -- I'm not sure of the details; but as
far as applying the incentives, I believe it's a one-time
payment, like in the form of a bonus, I would think. That's
pretty much, you know, what I know about it right now.
But the county or the personnel department is
looking at coming up with this program so that we can use
that to attract employees.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Anything specific, or it's
just general conversation at this point?
MR. TENGAN: No, it's already in written form and
being reviewed and commented on.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Can you divulge some of that?
MR. TENGAN: As I said, I don't have --
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Oh, you don't -- okay, that's
what I wanted to know.
MS. RAISBECK: If I can make a comment, Mr.
Chairman, I would think a one-time payment is nice; but what
is really needed is higher salaries for these engineering
positions that are in great demand in the private sector and
where the pay in the private sector is a lot higher than
what the county pays. So I don't think that a one-time
bonus is going to meet the need sufficiently.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: You may be correct, but at
least it's an attempt to somewhat look for some kind of
positive solution. But I would hope that maybe further
research can be done as far as upgrading. I don't know all
the procedures as far as how pay scales are set by
personnel, and I'm not privileged to that.
But I would imagine you understand that a little
bit better, Mr. Tengan.
MR. TENGAN: My only comment, Mr. Chair, as far as
compensation to employees, we have very ridged rules that we
have to go by, and there are civil service laws that we got
to comply with. So we're not like in private industry where
we can say, Hey, okay, what is the other guy paying you?
We'll match that plus give you some more. We can't be doing
things like that. That's the only comment that I have.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Mr. Johansen?
MR. JOHANSEN: To follow up on that, maybe we
could understand better how a change is made in the civil
service rules which will accommodate a staff shortage in any
particular area.
MR. TENGAN: You might have a better chance going
through congress. The one big, I would say, you know,
stumbling block is that, you know, the civil service system
applies to all the counties and the state and the university
and the Department of Education. So you're talking about a
massive coordination.
MR. JOHANSEN: Sounds pretty bleak.
MR. TENGAN: What's that?
MR. JOHANSEN: It sounds pretty bleak, getting
additional engineers at anything like a competitive pay
scale.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Yes, Paul? Paul, why don't
you come up and --
MR. SEITZ: I may be able to shed a little bit of
light on that.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Paul Seitz.
MR. SEITZ: Typically, the hiring incentive that's
been done in the past -- I don't know specifically about the
one George is speaking of. Typically, in the past, what
they've done, they call them intensives, they call them
shortage differentials. They have a couple different names
for them.
Typically, what it is, is there will be a premium
placed on the base pay. That premium is attached to that,
on the base pay, until such time as a shortage or the
incentive is taken off. Typically, the way it works, okay,
in real round numbers, say that you're going to be getting a
thousand dollars a month and they're going to give you a
$500 shortage or incentive, so that can bring some people
in.
But typically, what happens, as the -- when the
shortage is taken off, any pay raises in the future are
deducted from that. So if now you're getting $1500, okay,
and everybody gets a $200 raise, well, now you're still
going to be getting $1500, but your shortage has dropped
from 500 to 300. That's typically the way they do it.
MS. RAISBECK: That's not just the personnel
department, that's statewide?
MR. SEITZ: That's within the civil service
system. I hope that cleared it up a little bit. I know
because my guys have had that for a long time.
MS. RAISBECK: Have had that differential?
MR. SEITZ: Yes.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Thank you, Paul. That gives
us some light. Not much but some light.
Yes, Mr. Okamura?
VICE-CHAIR OKAMURA: I was wondering, you know,
the short -- the space problem, space shortage problem,
would you deal with it through this budgeting process?
Let's say if you needed more space, would you try to budget
some additional space into the budget for a particular
department?
MR. TENGAN: That's correct. What we would do is
include an account for office rental, as we did for the
planning division --
VICE-CHAIR OKAMURA: Is there a shortage in the
engineering -- I think there was a shortage in the
engineering department also.
MR. TENGAN: In space?
VICE-CHAIR OKAMURA: Space, yeah.
MR. TENGAN: Well, we got it in the fiscal
division also. We're quite short of space.
VICE-CHAIR OKAMURA: Would the budgeting time be a
good time to try to budget in for added space for these
departments?
MR. TENGAN: Well, we do have a little space that
we can play around with for a little while. Since the
planning division has moved to the Hokama building, most of
the former board room is available for use now. Except that
in order to maximize use of it, that room, we would have to
relocate the door between the conference room and the fiscal
division. I believe the door has been placed -- restricts
our use of, you know, getting maximum usage out of the room.
VICE-CHAIR OKAMURA: Would now be a good time for
you guys to look at the space requirements and try to budget
some money for someone in that department for -- to improve
their efficiency?
MR. TENGAN: I guess it would be a good time. Any
time would be a good time. But to put monies in to pay for
the additional space, this would be the best time.
VICE-CHAIR OKAMURA: Because people are aware of
the problem and maybe we'll be able to get the money. It's
just a thought, but maybe now would be a good time.
MR. TENGAN: One big question we got to resolve
is, you know, do we get space for just -- let's say Alva
needs four more engineers and we need space for them, do we
go out and look for space for four engineers, or do we go
out and look for space for his entire division? Then that
would create an excess of space on the fifth floor if we did
that.
VICE-CHAIR OKAMURA: Or if you were to move one of
the smaller departments out and readjust the space.
MR. TENGAN: The smaller division in the -- on the
fifth floor right now is the administrative division.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: I don't know that's a good
idea.
MR. TENGAN: I would be glad to move down to the
Montana Beach Property.
VICE-CHAIR OKAMURA: Maybe now would be a good
time, it's just a suggestion.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Any more questions in the
area -- or any more explanation in the area of engineering
program so we can continue to proceed? Any other questions
from the board members? Ralph?
MR. JOHANSEN: Well, you have said that using
general engineering staff is not feasible because of --
because they're not familiar with the department functions.
Have we ever talked about contracting engineering for some
of these functions?
MR. TENGAN: Yes, we have discussed that with
staff. Alva might have more details as to what the staff
concerns are.
MR. NAKAMURA: Some of the concerns that we had
was if -- well, let me say a couple of things. One is,
there's concerns that whoever we hire would not really know
our standards the way our staff people would know it. One
approach that we thought about doing was to hire an outside
person, a consultant or two, and bring them into the office
and work with our people. But from what I understand in the
civil service law, that can't be done, you see.
So then we thought about maybe looking at
working -- having them work in their own offices and just
come in for a short while; but I talked to the staff and
they felt uncomfortable about that too, because these
individuals would not be under the direct supervision of our
staff people, to insure that whenever they review these
drawings that -- that, in fact, they're picking up all the
different mistakes that we find on these drawings that get
submitted. That was the real big concern.
So as a result of that, it was decided rather than
trying to hire an outside consulting firm to help us with
that, we try to do the best we can to try to hire outside
people to actually be employees of the county and then train
them accordingly and bring them up.
So far, like I said, we picked up two. So my
vacancy rate dropped from six down to four. So we're still
looking for more bodies to pick up.
MR. JOHANSEN: We're still having trouble with
that $25 million CIP budget.
MR. NAKAMURA: True. But some of that -- we'll
get into that later on. But part of the problem with that
is that a lot of our bids that are coming in currently are
much higher than what we have in the budget. So then we
have a problem with having to go to budget with other kinds
of things, shifting monies around just to make up the
difference. So that's a whole new area.
But we looked at trying to hire outside, but after
much discussion and talking over, we decided not to go that
route.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Okay. Any more questions?
MS. RAISBECK: Mr. Chair, would it be possible --
when we transmit the budget to the mayor, to include some
comments to the fact that we are disturbed that we don't
feel that current salary structure will support hiring a
sufficient number of engineers to accomplish the work that
needs to be done?
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: I think something like that
can be included in the transmittal to the mayor. But again,
knowing what Mr. Tengan and Mr. Nakamura has said, you got
to remember this whole civil service program is a statewide
program, and that's where the real challenge is, because you
have other counties.
And I speak because I have time to spend with and
I spent time with the Big Island and Kauai, and some of
their situations are totally different than ours. And they
don't want to spend or they're not willing to spend and
they're not willing to change some of these things.
But let me not get into that issue. I will put in
a transmittal of our concerns in that area, that we're
gravely concerned in that area.
MR. TENGAN: Mr. Chair, I think I should mention
one thing. Paul mentioned a shortage differential for his
treatment plant operators, we could have done the same thing
for the engineers; however, we are already hiring the
engineers at the -- which is the highest step that we can
pay any engineer. And so the personnel office has taken the
position that since we're already paying at the highest end,
you know, that kind of takes care of the shortage
differential.
Because in normal times, let's say we have a
surplus of engineers out in the community and looking for
jobs, they would be coming in at the lowest step, and so by
us moving it up to the top step, we felt that, you know,
that in itself is like the shortage differential. So to
apply a shortage differential on top of that, my inquiry to
personnel office, I got a negative answer.
MS. RAISBECK: Well, the mayor might have some
influence with the personnel office.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: I don't think so. But
anyway, okay. Well, we will put that under our concerns,
and I'll forward a transmittal with that from the board.
MS. RAISBECK: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Anything else under the
engineering program? Any more comments or questions for our
staff here? All right, hearing none, moving right along to
water resources and planning program. Ellen?
Jacky is right there in the corner. Ellen and
Jacky, why don't you introduce yourself just for the minutes
purposes.
MS. KRAFTSOW: I'm Ellen Kraftsow with the water
resources and planning division.
MS. TAKAKURA: Jacky Takakura, administrative
officer.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Thank you. Go ahead, Ellen.
What page should we start on?
MS. PERDIDO: Start on page 83, which is the
salaries.
MS. KRAFTSOW: There aren't really any changes
there, it's just a matter of getting these full. Some of
them have been upstairs now for a couple of years. There's
one noted here as waiting for PD, where I did actually hand
in a PD quite a while ago. I think that -- communication --
so the hydrologist is the only one --
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Which one is that?
MS. KRAFTSOW: The clerical tech. The hydrologist
is waiting for my redescription, and the rest is -- and
that's because we found somebody. We have difficulty --
I've had the experience of hiring a planner to one position,
getting nobody on the list, hiring the only person on the
list, waiting while they went through all the medical, etc.,
and then the day before they were supposed to start they get
offered twice as much somewhere else. And there's no way
that we can compete with that.
I had another woman who was waiting for the 2,
very good, very qualified Hawaiian, who actually has done
contracts with us. Waited, waited, waited, waited, waited,
and by the time they did the list, I called her and she
said, "You know, I gave up, I took another job."
So we lose them both for salary and for the amount
of time it takes to go through upstairs. You know, some of
these positions were handed in and approved as early as
2003.
MS. RAISBECK: Excuse me, Ellen, I don't see a
listing of which positions are unfilled. Is that on here?
MS. KRAFTSOW: It's on the same table that --
MS. RAISBECK: Where is it?
MS. KRAFTSOW: It's on page --
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Here. I think everyone --
they passed that out.
MS. KRAFTSOW: It's right here.
MS. RAISBECK: I didn't get it.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Here it is. Did everybody
get one?
MS. PERDIDO: Page 65.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: There's another one. Okay, I
apologize.
MS. KRAFTSOW: I've also made inquiries several
times -- the planners do not get, right now, neither
shortage differential nor do we hire them at a higher step.
So there's no accommodation being made to help us recruit
planners at this time.
And I have made the request to personnel whether
it would be possible -- what we have to show to do that.
Because I have a person that would be very qualified for the
6, and it may help me keep the other guy, and it may have
helped me keep the 2. But I've never gotten any responses
to the inquiries. I mean, I've sent them informally by
e-mail several times. So I don't know.
So the, you know, the positions are there now,
finally, but the -- the funding is there now, finally, but
there's no list; there's nothing to hire from. There
doesn't seem to be any moving.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: When you say "no list," you
are referring to --
MS. KRAFTSOW: The way that we have to hire is we
have to wait for them to recruit, and then they create this
list, and -- you know, then, even this one person, I guess
HRS was edited, and during the Cayetano administration, I
think it was, the state legislature amended HRS to enable
people who were born and raised here who wanted to come
back, to come back to not have to meet the residency
requirement in order to come back.
So I have a friend now, born and raised here, used
to be a high level planner, lots of GIS skills, been doing
watershed modeling in Washington State, wants to come back,
wants to be a 6. Two problems: one is, the price of living
is really high and the salary isn't that great; and two is,
it's just getting the list going.
So I'm only saying this to let you know that we're
facing the same issues as every other division, and it's
difficult to function when you just can't get people on
board.
And when you do get people on board, more than
once I hired people that, you know, they've done fine and
they're fine, but where there were questions about if they
were as qualified as some other people that we -- the staff
had -- let's say we've given chances to people, which can be
good, out of lack of an applicant pool.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: In other words, what you're
trying to say, you had somebody and that's the only body you
had, so you wanted to give that person a chance? Is that
what you're trying to tell me?
MS. KRAFTSOW: Right.
MR. JOHANSEN: Mr. Chair?
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Yes, Mr. Johansen.
MR. JOHANSEN: I have a question to Mr. Tengan.
All the counties must be having the same problem?
MR. TENGAN: Not necessarily so. When I asked
someone from the Big Island about their engineering
positions, they seemed to have filled all their engineering
positions.
MR. JOHANSEN: Is that a function of lower growth?
MS. KRAFTSOW: Land is cheaper. You can't buy
land on a salary that the county pays you here, but you can
over there.
MS. RAISBECK: What are the comparable salaries on
the Big Island and here?
MR. TENGAN: They're on the same compensation
schedule.
MR. JOHANSEN: The reason I ask, if that were the
case, then you could combine forces and approach the
executive and the legislative bodies as a group and present
it as a common problem. But apparently it's not.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Okay.
MS. RAISBECK: Perhaps, Mr. Chairman, based on
what Ellen has been saying, we need to represent to the
mayor that we feel something -- somebody needs to look into
the length of time it takes to get and recruit and hire for
the positions.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Now, may I ask, is this
recruitment, this list, also mandated by civil service?
MR. TENGAN: That's correct.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Okay. I'll put that as one
more of our concerns.
MS. RAISBECK: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: I will do that. Moving
along, any other, you know, I guess, questions in the area
of our -- yes?
VICE-CHAIR OKAMURA: You have your contractual
service and professional services --
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: What page?
VICE-CHAIR OKAMURA: Page 84. 6112 and 6132.
What do those entail that you budgeted for?
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: What was that again,
Mr. Okamura? I'm sorry, I didn't get the numbers.
VICE-CHAIR OKAMURA: Page 84, Nos. 6112 and 6132.
MS. KRAFTSOW: 6132, that's professional services,
that's itemized on page 61. And 6112, that's things like
maintenance of -- you know, we have five staff, four of
which have -- licenses and hydraulic modeling software, and
every one of those softwares has annual update fees. And,
you know, they need to get updated. And so that's like the
combination of all the fees for all the different software
and Xerox maintenance and software maintenance, and all of
that.
VICE-CHAIR OKAMURA: Thank you. You said page 61
or 62?
MS. KRAFTSOW: I have 61. 20-8.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Wait, what was that?
MS. KRAFTSOW: 85 is grants. Oh, I'm sorry --
MS. PERDIDO: That's your grants. Professional
services.
MS. KRAFTSOW: Monitor and update Iao, Waihe'e and
Opana Tunnel at Kailili. That's actually combined.
Commission groundwater model, stream monitor and aquatic
ecology for the west side. The stream gauge -- a stream
gauging program. An information systems -- integration,
it's just an allowance. It's small.
Water use and development plan and demand model --
resource managing and protection allowance and research
facilitation -- and/or other well-head protection program.
That's been -- that's from the EPA grant, that's the
remaining amount for that and the hydraulic model. Those
are services to accommodate those --
VICE-CHAIR OKAMURA: Thank you.
MS. KRAFTSOW: I guess professional services are
used to also include all those other --
MS. PERDIDO: Now they are itemized. On page 85
you'll see those. They used to be under professional
services, but they're now line items itemized on the county
budget.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: That's the Leeward Haleakala
Forest, that page?
MS. PERDIDO: Yes.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: So these are monies that we
allocate and give to these various -- nature conservancy,
the East Molokai watershed partnership service, etc., etc.,
that's monies that we grant them?
MS. KRAFTSOW: Right. To do the work.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: To do the work, okay. That's
page 85, by the way.
MS. KRAFTSOW: I want to make sure -- this year we
had a problem and we're going to actually have to go to
council to amend it, because we asked for a hundred thousand
for the nature conservancy and the Waikamoe preserve and
another hundred thousand for the East Maui watershed
partnership and the adjoining preserve.
And they were both scheduled by the county under
TNC, and that's not where the partnership runs the money
through, and so we have to go back upstairs to make the
change, and we have to go back and ask for a whole council
amendment just to give them the money that we tried to
budget. And the same mistake was made here, and so I would
like to --
MS. PERDIDO: You need to let us know so we can
change it here.
MS. KRAFTSOW: Does this count as letting you
know?
MS. PERDIDO: No. You have this to review --
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: It sounds something more
internal, and so if you can --
MS. KRAFTSOW: I thought it happened upstairs.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Any more questions?
Comments?
VICE-CHAIR OKAMURA: One question, then.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Yes, sir, Mr. Okamura?
VICE-CHAIR OKAMURA: You know, the council is
looking at a conservation program, I don't know how soon,
realistically how soon they're going to start. I think in
the ordinance they are expecting the Department of Water
Supply to carry out that.
MS. KRAFTSOW: What I saw was -- one of the
ordinances said we should write a plan within 180 days, and
the other one just had some enforcement of waterways
prohibitions and -- water schedules. We actually have had a
draft landscape conservation ordinance that went out with
the Lanai water -- but we never got through that draft.
I don't know -- we budgeted some to do a toilet
retrofit and do a pilot and to do some studies, but it's an
increased budget, but it's not a full-blown budget yet.
VICE-CHAIR OKAMURA: So if you have to do it, how
will you handle it in terms of resources?
MS. KRAFTSOW: If we come up with something that
looks like it's going to cost more than what we have
budgeted, then we would probably either take it elsewhere
for professional services if we have enough or we would go
to council for a budget amendment.
VICE-CHAIR OKAMURA: Thank you.
MS. KRAFTSOW: Based on benefit cost analysis.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Anything else for Ellen in
this area? Okay, moving right along, then. Water treatment
plant program. I guess, Paul -- I'm sorry, hang on.
MS. KRAFTSOW: I just want to say that our
conservation budget, which used to be 60,000, is 300,000.
So it's, you know --
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Substantially increased.
VICE-CHAIR OKAMURA: What page is that?
MS. PERDIDO: 84.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Right here, conservation
program, 6278. It went from 90,000 in 2005; 260, 2006; and
300,000 for fiscal year 2007.
MS. KRAFTSOW: And that's still not really a
full-blown conservation program, but it's a major step.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Seems like you're moving in
the right direction. Thank you, Ellen.
Paul, I'll call you up for the water treatment
plant program.
MS. PERDIDO: Page 65 shows the vacancies.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: For --
MS. PERDIDO: For treatment plant.
MR. SEITZ: We also have one more.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: One more page?
MS. PERDIDO: No, one more vacancy.
MR. SEITZ: One more vacancy. One of our workers
transferred out.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Yeah, went to Kapalua.
MS. PERDIDO: And then we can go back to 87 to
start on this.
MR. SEITZ: Yeah, expansion positions.
MS. PERDIDO: 89 --
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Page 89 is your operating
budget.
MS. PERDIDO: One of the major increases is
electricity.
VICE-CHAIR OKAMURA: This is -- sorry.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Go ahead. If you have a
question, please address it.
VICE-CHAIR OKAMURA: This doesn't include the
pumping cost, pumping cost between plants and --
MR. SEITZ: Some of it, yes, it does. Actually,
the Kamole water treatment facility is Maui Electric's
largest account. And that pumps water from the Kamole
facility, lifts it about 350-something feet up to Pookela.
And we use a series of high-lift pumps for that, a 700
horsepower, 600 horsepower, and two 400 horsepowers.
So the electric bill at that facility can be over
a hundred thousand dollars a month.
VICE-CHAIR OKAMURA: So that's what that $300,000
is for, that 375 increase? It's mostly for that one --
MR. SEITZ: No, it's spread out amongst other ones
too. That's just the largest.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Realistically speaking, I
mean, you guys are making the best estimate guess you can,
but none of us know what oil and utility prices could be a
year from today.
MR. SEITZ: I don't have a crystal ball. If I
did, I wouldn't be here.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Yes, we understand that.
MS. RAISBECK: Mr. Chair?
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Yes, Ms. Raisbeck.
MS. RAISBECK: Can I ask Paul, the salaries as
listed on page 87, are those including the shortage
differential or not?
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: 87.
MR. SEITZ: Yes. Actually, if you look down on
the third column over where it says "S.R. & Step," if you
look down on a lot of them, you'll see an SD after it,
shortage differential.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Oh, okay. So that's what
that means.
MR. SEITZ: That's what that means.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: You learn something new every
day.
MS. RAISBECK: So that would be true for fiscal
2006. So the jump is an actual real jump, not a difference
between a base and something --
MR. SEITZ: That depends on if personnel services
reinstates the shortage differential every time they get a
raise. If they don't reinstate it, then it's subtracted
from the shortage.
MS. RAISBECK: They're the ones who decide if
there's a shortage?
MR. SEITZ: The Department of Personnel Services,
yes. It's not us.
MS. RAISBECK: Oh. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Paul, I would like to call
for a ten-minute recess, because this young lady has been
going steady for a little over an hour. And if that's all
right with the board, may I ask for a ten-minute recess?
Okay, I'll call for a ten-minute recess.
(A recess was taken.)
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: I would like to reconvene the
meeting. We were still in water treatment program. Any
more questions in that area? Field operations.
MR. SEITZ: I don't handle field operations.
MS. PERDIDO: I think one point that maybe Paul
should put up is, we're putting the replacement filters to
the main -- in the operating instead of the CIP. So that's
one change of --
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: So in other words, we're
taking the money out of CIP --
MS. PERDIDO: No. We're not touching CIP. It's
coming out of operating for the replacement of membranes.
And they do have an eight-year life?
MR. SEITZ: Five.
MS. PERDIDO: Five-year life that we do
capitalize. But we are going to be taking it out of
operating and not CIP.
MR. SEITZ: In the past years, we've always had it
in the CIP budget; so this year you won't see it in the CIP
budget because it's now in the operating side.
MS. RAISBECK: How much is that?
MR. SEITZ: About $300,000.
MS. RAISBECK: At over five years or each year?
MR. SEITZ: No, no, each year.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Where would that fall under?
MS. PERDIDO: It's on page 91.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: I see it, okay. 360,000.
Okay. Okay, about 400,000, yeah?
MR. SEITZ: Yeah, I think we did up it.
MS. KAU: 363.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Yeah, okay.
MS. RAISBECK: That sounds like a wise decision to
do it that way.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Any more questions for Paul?
I know he wants to run away.
MR. SEITZ: I have to stay for the CIP.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: So you're not going to run.
Let me make all the board members aware, we have
this room until 4:00, we're going to lose Jacky at 3 and
Ellen at 3:30, so let's, if we can, if there's not a really
lot of questions, move on with operations -- I would like to
put field operations and plant operation program and
department water expenses -- I mean, unless there's a real
urgency, all three together. And if you have specific
questions. But who would like to cover those areas for
field operations?
MR. TENGAN: I guess we can.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Just real quickly and then --
MS. PERDIDO: There's one expansion for field --
MS. KAU: Yeah.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: And that is page?
MS. KAU: It was added subsequent to this, but it
is for a laborer. He's asking for a laborer, an additional
laborer.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: And where is that? That's
not put on the --
MS. PERDIDO: It's not put on this schedule.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: What would the cost of that
laborer be?
MS. PERDIDO: It would be about 28,144, but
usually they will half the salary, they will say six months
only. Because of the -- the council or mayor.
MS. KAU: Any other questions about the salaries
for field ops?
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: What about shortages? I know
that the page -- are we really --
MS. PERDIDO: There are seven vacancies.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Seven vacancies, okay. And
they are? Real quickly, Jacky.
MS. TAKAKURA: On page 65, two water service
supervisors, who left us due to retirement, one is in
Lahaina; one is Molokai. A Pipe Fitter 2, who also retired,
that one is Hana; three pipe fitter helpers and an expansion
position Pipe Fitter 1 in Lahaina, which we're presently
interviewing in-house. And that should be filled soon,
No. 266.
MR. TENGAN: We'll be losing another supervisor
come December 1st.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Kapalua, I told them to stop
doing this. Any questions? I don't think there's much to
be discussed. I mean, you know, we know what we need.
Seems like we're trying to recruit and expand. Plant
operations and department -- well, the plant operations.
MS. PERDIDO: Plant operations, there was no
expansion -- no, no, one expansion, a mechanics supervisor,
that's on page 99. And there's five vacancies.
MR. TENGAN: Mr. Chair, the position for the
mechanic supervisor, right now the mechanics and the
electricians work under the same supervisor. And the intent
here is to break up the two functions. So that right now
there's an electrician that heads that function and he's not
as well-versed on the mechanical side, you know, to kind of
provide -- so what we want to do is split up the two
functions and put a mechanic in charge of the mechanical
section and an electrician in charge of the electrical side.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Any questions on the plant
operation programs?
MS. RAISBECK: Yeah, the Water Microbiologist 1 --
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: What page, Sally?
MS. RAISBECK: This is the vacancy report, WW-222.
That's been vacant a year, and it says position reallocated.
Where did that go?
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Is that W --
MS. RAISBECK: On the vacancy report.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: WW-0245?
MS. RAISBECK: No. WW-222, on the vacancy report,
under plant operations.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: I don't see 222.
MS. TAKAKURA: I believe Sally is looking at the
one as of June 30, 2004.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Oh, there's another one.
MS. RAISBECK: Oh, I'm sorry.
MS. TAKAKURA: It would have been reallocated.
Because it's not on the current vacant positions listed, it
would be filled by now.
MS. RAISBECK: Okay.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Okay.
VICE-CHAIR OKAMURA: Plant operations, you have
water treatment plant, water treatment facilities, the
earlier -- where do you make the dividing line?
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: I think, you know, for sake
of time, that kind of question, can you maybe later on, you
know, you can kind of make your own question on that one.
MR. TENGAN: Mr. Chair, one statement to clarify
that. Paul represents the water treatment division, which
handles all the water treatment plants; the plant operations
handles all the wells, the pumps, and the electronic
controls within the distribution and transmission system.
And the lab also.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: The final two is plant
operations -- oh, we did that -- and department-wide
expansions, which includes debt services, insurance, and
overhead charges, employee benefits, which is a big one.
Okay. I guess a real quick encapsulization (sic) of that.
It's pretty much self-explanatory.
MS. PERDIDO: Yes, it's pretty much
self-explanatory. Overhead is what the county charges us
for our share of expenses like the attorney fees, the
personnel fees, and all -- they charge us that amount, you
know, monthly fee. Benefits include all the insurance
benefits, the -- everything.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: That would be retirement,
medical benefits, and whatever. Okay.
MS. PERDIDO: Refund from mainlines is what we
offer to our -- to refund our consumers who put in mainlines
and we share the expense with them and refund it over five
years. This debt service, you know, I want to point out
does not include any additional debt if we need to issue any
debt for CIP.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Any questions for Holly in
the area of debt-wide expenses? Okay. Any more -- I'm
going to, if it's all right with the board, close operations
and now move into the area of CIP. So we will move into
Discussion and Possible action on the approval to submit the
Fiscal Year 2007 CIP budget to the Mayor.
MR. TENGAN: Mr. Chair --
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Who wants to take this and
get it rolling? Thank you, Director Tengan. What page?
You have to speak up, Ellen.
MS. KRAFTSOW: Your table A starts on page 104 and
table B starts on page 115. And I guess table B is really
the summary. The assignment to funding sources is not
final; this is the default from the computer. Some of that
funding gets adjusted when we find out the actual
anticipated funds based on lapsing and everything.
But, basically, things that we know up front are
made to the expansions are -- and underwater sources
development -- things are capital or mix of capital and
expansion usually start out and move to capital -- and
design. So this breaks it down by community plan area. And
source of funding -- a total amount right now is 25.6
million.
And then as far as table A goes, I don't know if
you want to go over every project by project, or if you have
specific questions, we could try to address those.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: I think I'll open the floor
to questions on the specific projects if that's what the
board members so desire.
MR. HIRANAGA: Question, Mr. Chair.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Yes.
MR. HIRANAGA: Hamoa-Koali --
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: What page?
MR. HIRANAGA: Page 106. Could you briefly
describe that? I know there's -- you didn't bring any maps?
MS. KRAFTSOW: I didn't bring maps today, no. But
I do have the description on page 106.
MR. HIRANAGA: I'm not that familiar with Hana, if
you could --
MS. KRAFTSOW: Okay. Past Hana town, where the
Hamoa well is, from there to the Kaupo end of the system, it
doesn't go all the way to Kaupo, but to the Kaupo end, that
whole line is substandard. And towards the end of that
line, the Koali region, that wholly depends on this
substandard line. And it depends on that pump and line for
their -- it's like their sole source of water.
And the line, I guess, needs to be fixed every
week or every other week. Often. And it's causing a lot of
overtime, and it's also causing -- the whole system is
substandard. So the whole segment is a long multiyear
project. And the segment that we would be proposing to work
on during the fiscal year 2007 goes from standpipe 23 to
standpipe 48.
MR. HIRANAGA: This line runs along Hana Highway?
MS. KRAFTSOW: Basically, yeah.
MR. HIRANAGA: Second question. The Keanae
waterline improvements, is that the entire waterline for the
entire peninsula all the way to the end?
MS. KRAFTSOW: Peninsula section, yeah, it looks
like it would be.
MR. HIRANAGA: It goes past the church all the way
to the river mouth?
MS. KRAFTSOW: The river mouth at the bottom or on
the side --
MR. HIRANAGA: End of the road and past the
church, it turns into a dirt road and it dead-ends to a
river mouth.
MS. KRAFTSOW: I think I measured it to take the
whole thing. But if they decided they didn't need the whole
thing, they wouldn't do it. When they go into the actual
project design phase, which I guess they have done, but I
didn't check with them, this is the original scope, they
would -- if they would take off a few hundred feet, because
that last couple hundred foot segment is just for service
and not fire protection, that would be the difference
between --
MR. HIRANAGA: But you would bring up the entire
peninsula?
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: You know, the last one that
Member Hiranaga asked about, from standpipe 23 to standpipe
48, how far is that? How many miles?
MS. KRAFTSOW: About 3500 feet.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: About 3500 feet total, as it
says over here?
MS. KRAFTSOW: Uh-hm.
VICE-CHAIR OKAMURA: That's from where to where?
Is that to Hana or the other way around?
MS. KRAFTSOW: It's past Hana, that's between
Hamoa and Koali. And this is sort of towards the beginning
of that -- I think it's within the first third of that
segment where Hamoa wells are.
VICE-CHAIR OKAMURA: And then the other segment
would be the opposite direction?
MS. KRAFTSOW: It would keep going. It works its
way from upstream to downstream. From the well towards --
MR. HIRANAGA: I have another question.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Go ahead, Member Hiranaga.
MR. HIRANAGA: I'm just curious, Kihei-Makena,
page 109. You only have one project planned for the
Kihei-Makena area this fiscal year?
MS. KRAFTSOW: Kihei and Makena is much newer, in
general, in terms of when it was built, than much of the
rest of the system, so it doesn't have the same replacement
needs. And it is part of the Central Maui system, so a lot
of times -- there was a Kihei -- but I think that got moved
out. Yeah, that's the one there. That's the one we have
right now. That line actually happens to be our biggest
overtime cost. Single handedly the line that causes the
most overtime.
MR. HIRANAGA: That's the section beyond the Sonny
Vick subdivision?
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: You know that one?
MS. KRAFTSOW: It's all in --
VICE-CHAIR OKAMURA: They had the agreement to do
it themselves; right?
MR. HIRANAGA: I believe there's a private
waterline agreement. It makes the people who are receiving
service responsible for maintenance.
MS. KRAFTSOW: We gave you guys that agreement, it
didn't cover fixing the line like this.
MR. HIRANAGA: What does it cover?
MS. KRAFTSOW: I think they were responsible for
if they're -- are they up above the line, the pump --
themselves?
MR. TENGAN: I don't recall in terms of where they
are.
MS. KRAFTSOW: I remember we had to pull it out
for last year's budget.
MR. HIRANAGA: And the previous year.
MS. KRAFTSOW: Yeah. It didn't cover that.
MS. RAISBECK: Mr. Chair?
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Yes, Ms. Raisbeck.
MS. RAISBECK: I would like to make a suggestion,
Ellen, that it would be helpful to me if we had a summary
sheet where you sort of for each water system, you know,
that we have, you would list the summary demands in the
different categories, like replacement versus, you know,
replacement, and then just very briefly a summary value for
how much you're spending for replacement of pipes or
replacement of tanks or -- and so on. You know, we got a
given area --
MS. KRAFTSOW: By project classification, you
mean? Sort of like Table B, except instead of being broken
down by community plan, broken down by project
classification?
MS. RAISBECK: Yeah. So that you could -- we
could sort of -- and if it were possible, which I don't know
that it is, but I remember so well the Brown & Caldwell
study that looked at all the infrastructure that we had at
that time, which is maybe five or six years ago, and came up
with a figure for replacement as is.
I mean, you know, placement, not expansion in any
way, and have somehow the comparison to the figure so we
could sort of see how much progress are we making in
replacing what was told at the time that needed replacement.
For example, how much are we making progress in the
different regions.
I realize that's extra work, which you don't need
right now, but that kind of thing would be very helpful. I
think also when you go before the council.
MS. KRAFTSOW: Right. I guess you brought up a
good point that I don't want to forget, so bring me back to
it about budget. But about mileage of pipe or -- tanks --
replacing, things like that, this is actually a pretty hefty
replacement oriented budget. There's a lot of tank
replacements, especially.
But what that Brown & Caldwell model actually did
was -- if you spent this kind of money this way and did this
much per year, this is how your financial picture would
move. It didn't actually say this is how much you have to
replace a year. What we need to do is -- even if we catch
up, you know, at the other end there's something getting
older. So we should keep doing it every year. It's not
like we're going to catch up and be done.
MS. RAISBECK: No, I didn't mean that. I just
meant that if we're in a process of putting in new stuff and
replacing old stuff, what kind of gauge can we have about
how much, you know, how much we're doing a year compared to
the need. That's what would be helpful to me.
MS. KRAFTSOW: We can do that, yeah. It would
take a while, but if it's important --
MS. RAISBECK: Well, I'm just saying it might be
useful next spring when you're going through the budget with
the council.
MS. KRAFTSOW: I did that last year and it was
less. I don't remember if the target was -- how many miles
the target was. I would say we have -- I don't remember.
MS. RAISBECK: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Okay.
MS. KRAFTSOW: But about budget, we usually have a
meeting every year during budget preparation season, where I
get the engineers to help me and they look at recent prior
projects and what it costs. We had that meeting in April of
2004 to do the 2005 and 6 -- we were already working on 6 by
then, the budget, and that was a little more than a year
ago.
And we went over, again, as I think Alva mentioned
to you, projects are coming in consistently over budget. So
it went over more recent -- recently, again, with the
engineers again, and the cost factors have gone up by, like,
three times what they were. I mean, it's not just your
usual annual 5 percent increase. It's, like, a huge
increase.
And I haven't had a chance to recost every project
in the database. And it's not set up to do that
automatically for various reasons right now. So you're
looking at this 2007 budget that's before you, it has been
recosted. But you're looking at even more difficulty
reaching the correct mileage.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Ellen, if you were to give
me, and if I were to ask you this question, how much more of
an actual percentage increase on what you're actually
showing me here to keep up with what you're originally
anticipating?
MS. KRAFTSOW: What we used to do, what we
normally used to do is assume it's going to be about 5
percent a year, and then we would, like, start out one year
and we would do -- make it almost on the expensive side and
then just not change the cost factors every year -- change
them -- but lately we change them more because the prices
are changing more.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: So what kind of a percentage?
MS. KRAFTSOW: It was, like, 20 percent a year for
the last couple of years. That can't continue. I mean,
that's -- if that continues, we're all --
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Mr. Okamura?
VICE-CHAIR OKAMURA: Most of these you contract
out to CIP, what percent did you contract out and what
percent did you do in-house?
MS. KRAFTSOW: For construction, they mostly have
contractors.
VICE-CHAIR OKAMURA: 90 percent of this is
contracted out on CIP?
MR. TENGAN: I think all of this is.
VICE-CHAIR OKAMURA: A hundred percent?
MS. KRAFTSOW: Except where it says -- how many
times some things were designed in-house.
MR. TENGAN: The in-house projects are very small.
Practically speaking, you can say all of it is done --
VICE-CHAIR OKAMURA: Have you ever thought of --
increasing the capability to do in-house --
MR. TENGAN: Yes. We just talked about it
yesterday, because the prices were getting --
VICE-CHAIR OKAMURA: You might save money.
Because the contractor's price is not only material, but
everything, labor and everything else. Insurance.
MS. KRAFTSOW: One thing that went up a lot was
steel, the price of steel.
MR. TENGAN: Construction climate is such that,
you know, even if we were to go on that basis, we would have
a difficult time finding steelworkers.
VICE-CHAIR OKAMURA: Yeah.
MR. TENGAN: Back to the engineering problem.
VICE-CHAIR OKAMURA: Unless you do it and -- going
to be a period when construction is slow and you get all the
workers, and then you find a way to keep them. But it's
more work for everybody.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: I think that would be the
ideal world, but I think we have to realize that today the
climate is the way it is and not going to get much better.
MR. TENGAN: I can remember when I first came back
to Maui and started working for the board, the department
was chastised for doing a project in-house, by one of the
board members.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: None of us here.
MR. HIRANAGA: Me?
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: No --
MR. HIRANAGA: I don't work for the union.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Okay. On the CIP, any other
board members have questions? Now is our time. Ralph?
MR. JOHANSEN: No.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Sally?
MS. RAISBECK: No.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Mr. Ken?
MR. HIRANAGA: No.
VICE-CHAIR OKAMURA: I have a hard time with this
whole thing in a -- wherever it falls in the big scheme of
things compared to, say, last year. Sally might have had a
good suggestion, she sort of put it in some --
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Graphic form?
VICE-CHAIR OKAMURA: -- context. I'm not -- I
mean, it's hard to grasp this whole thing, you know, and
compare to what was requested last year and what was done
last year.
MS. KRAFTSOW: Last year, I don't know -- last
year I think I gave you an additional report like what Sally
requested. And I also gave you a thing where it had a
picture of each -- yeah, I never really felt like it got
used, so I kept it simple. Sorry. If there is something
specific --
VICE-CHAIR OKAMURA: I've got a question. So
what's the general process, like, say, all these budget
projects, let's say you pick, A, B, C projects as opposed to
X, Y, Z projects?
MS. KRAFTSOW: The original CIP is put together by
a few things, first, inventory, like these are all the
tanks, these are all the pumps. So, you know, if -- it used
to be 87 pumps, it's a little bit more now, but you want to
replace about -- through 10, 15 years. We've been slow on
that. The tanks are by condition and it's by age and it's
by the field, who says whatever.
Miles of pipe -- pipes, we prioritize everything
that is under 6 inches right away, and then even 6 inches --
and then we also did an overlay of the zoning. This was by
hand before we had GIS, by literally drawing markers on the
map -- of the zoning and some places were substandard for
the zoning or community plan. Front Street had one;
Upcountry had one.
Then you hear what's breaking from the district
supervisors, both in engineering and in the field. And so
it all just comes under one big list, and then based on age,
you give a rough priority. Then you start sitting down with
people and we'll know this is breaking a lot more than this,
or this is a bigger problem than that. And so you have sort
of the candidate list there, then the real priorities are
based on how it's performing.
MS. RAISBECK: Mr. Chair?
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Yes.
MS. RAISBECK: I just wanted to say, when we were
at the conference in San Francisco, I heard a fellow talk
about planning for replacement of, you know, pipe and things
like that. And his philosophy seemed to be that if a pipe
broke, you weren't doing the job right, that you had to
replace before breaking. Is there any feeling in our
department that you should replace before it breaks?
MS. KRAFTSOW: Sure, Sally, but we have literally,
you know, a 30-year backlog or 40-year backlog of systems
not being properly maintained and replaced. We don't have
the money to keep up with it. While there's the feeling, it
won't happen in reality.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Holly?
MS. PERDIDO: I just want to put a damper on it.
She has budgeted 25.6 million in CIP, we do not have that
kind of money to fund this. So we would, as I was telling
George, like my capital reserve fund, which Wendy has
estimated is going to lapse for '05, we're looking at
300,000, 400,000 left. And then we did get a settlement
from DBCP monies for about 900,000, so that gives us, like,
1.2 million available. Now, these are rough amounts because
they are based on estimates.
Water system, we're looking at 3.2 million. So
we're looking at maybe 5 million of that 20 million that we
have available. So we would probably have to issue a bond
to fund the rest of it. That's something to keep in mind.
VICE-CHAIR OKAMURA: The council may not go along
with that.
MS. KRAFTSOW: And this is the problem with
budgeting far in advance, you don't really know for sure
what you have, and you have to just say, okay, the committee
said 20, 25 million, we'll prepare that, then we'll see how
much of it we can do.
MS. RAISBECK: In presenting to the council, I
think it would be very important to point out that the only
way of living up to what the rates committee felt was
necessary is to do bonding. I mean, you know, really point
it out forcefully.
MS. KRAFTSOW: Yeah. When it comes to
replacement, though, I mean, this is just my opinion, I
think some people agree -- I mean, it used to be Dave's
opinion too, if you start bonding too much replacement,
eventually you do debt service -- it makes everything you do
more expensive than it needs to be.
If you can fund your replacement out of your
revenue stream to -- at least to upkeep it and expand out --
if you have to bond to expand, that's a different story,
then you get additional revenue money. But we're at a point
where we're going to be looking at bonding -- replacement.
To me, it worries me. I guess some people understand
finance better than me --
MS. RAISBECK: Even housewives can understand that
you shouldn't mortgage your house for your current living
expenses.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Exactly.
MR. HIRANAGA: Question.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Yes.
MR. HIRANAGA: Page 107, Pihani Road. Is that the
road past Happy Valley, going up the mountain?
MR. TENGAN: No, it's the road going down.
MR. HIRANAGA: There's a baseyard at the end of
it, it's like the last road on the right, as you exit Happy
Valley?
MR. TENGAN: Before you start going up the hill.
MR. HIRANAGA: Yeah, okay.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Okay. If there's no other
questions, I guess at this time I would like to entertain a
motion that we send this proposed budget before CIP and
operating to the mayor's office. Do I have any -- do I have
a motion for that?
MS. KRAFTSOW: May I ask a question?
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Sure, Ellen.
MS. KRAFTSOW: I didn't prepare it in the county
format, so the one that you have -- the county has their own
little Excel spreadsheet. It's the same information, but it
takes up a lot more pages. So what you would be sending
would be the same information, but not the same format --
MR. TENGAN: Approving the numbers.
MS. KRAFTSOW: Just the numbers, okay.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: That's all we're doing here,
exactly -- what format do you --
MS. KRAFTSOW: I just wanted to make sure.
MS. RAISBECK: Well, I will move that we forward
this budget to the mayor, with a comment that we remain very
concerned about the ability of the department to pay for the
engineers it needs, and for the planners that it needs, and
with a recommendation that the personnel department move
more quickly on the applications from this department.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: I can draft a little letter
to that extent.
VICE-CHAIR OKAMURA: What was the motion? I'm
sorry.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: To approve --
VICE-CHAIR OKAMURA: CIP and operating budget?
MS. RAISBECK: Yes. To forward this to the mayor
with those comments.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: A letter regarding that.
Ralph?
MR. JOHANSEN: It seems to me that -- I asked the
question, are other counties having this problem, and you
said the Big Island is not having this problem, they seem to
be able to fill their category of engineers without any
problem. And it was suggested that the problem is lower
property rates, lower cost of living.
It's obvious that the civil service rules do not
peg salaries on the various islands to their costs of
living. And I think that's a problem. And I don't know
that there's any way to address it, but I do think it's a
consideration and somebody should be dealing with it.
That's just my comment.
And if that were part of the recommendation to the
mayor's office, depends on whether the people thinks that's
appropriate. Certainly, if that is the main stumbling block
to accomplishing what the water department is seeking to
accomplish, then there must be some way of addressing it.
That's all I'm thinking.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: You make a good point. I'm
not sure how I would present that. Sally's one is a little
more, you know, to the point. You're talking overhauling a
system that may need overhauling, but --
MR. JOHANSEN: It's not really -- I would call it
a major tweaking, but not overhauling.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Okay. I have a motion, but I
didn't have a second.
MR. HIRANAGA: I don't know how to say this, but I
was looking at the next agenda item, which is one of the
agenda items which is the first quarter program performance
report. I thought if we looked at that before we did the
recommendation of the budget, then there's --
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: We cannot -- the only reason
I stop you at this point, in about five minutes we're going
to lose one board member and we're not going to do any more
business, so either we accomplish this right now or we're
not going to accomplish anything at this point. So I hate
to put the pressure on, but I was informed by another board
member that they need to leave at three, and that's the end
of the board meeting.
MS. RAISBECK: We got six here now.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Five. Ellen is not a board
member.
MS. RAISBECK: Oh, yeah, sorry.
MS. KRAFTSOW: I can volunteer for five minutes.
VICE-CHAIR OKAMURA: I was interested to know what
Mr. Hiranaga wanted to say about the second item on the --
MR. HIRANAGA: We don't have time to go into it if
we're going to lose a quorum in five minutes.
VICE-CHAIR OKAMURA: Yeah, but you wanted to look
at this because why? Before deciding on the budget.
MR. HIRANAGA: There's a report that shows
projected number of subdivision applications received, of
projected number of subdivision applications approved. And
1 they are only projecting to approve less than 10 percent of
the applications. So the fact that the work is not coming
out of the department is impacting the economy.
And so I thought that would give Sally more fodder
to express our concern about the lack of staff. We're
talking about affordable housing, if housing doesn't come
out, it just drives the price up because the supply is
strict. We have three minutes left.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: It's a dilemma, and I
apologize. Today has been one of those unique situations,
so I apologize. But I would --
MS. RAISBECK: Mr. Chair, I think Kent is making a
very valid point, that the performance would -- review of
performance would give us a better standpoint from which to
recommend or not, the budget; on the other hand, I don't
think that the department can afford to wait until December.
I don't know.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: No. I think we have got to a
point where I got to ask either we, you know, make the
motion and approve this, at least to send it up. Because,
again, it's not the end. Now, these other items, you know,
definitely got to be put off to the next meeting, and it
would be of grave concern, you know, so we can pass that on
to the mayor, your recommendations.
MR. HIRANAGA: I guess we could always do a
communication at the next meeting, you know, regarding the
budget. We can approve the budget, and then just have the
chairman send a communication later, because we're
expressing our concern about the lack of, you know,
staffing, lack of staffing and lack of output.
MS. RAISBECK: May I revise my motion, which so
far has not been seconded?
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Yes. You have to revise it
and make a new one.
MS. RAISBECK: What I would -- what Kent has said
is, if we could say to the mayor that we're very concerned
about the lack of the ability of the department to obtain
sufficient staff and that we see that, therefore, as
affecting the entire county and the economy that the
Department of Water Supply is not able to handle the work
that the development on Maui is making necessary.
And therefore -- well, however you want to phrase
it.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Let's try to stick to the
budget itself. Do we want to approve to send on to the
mayor the 2007 fiscal budget for both operating and CIP?
That's what I'm trying to get approval on, or some motion to
approve that. All the rest, Sally, I will work on and with
your help, and maybe Mr. Hiranaga's help, and even you,
whatever suggestions e-mail me and I'll put a letter
together, then forward it to you guys for your review.
MR. HIRANAGA: We can discuss it at the next
meeting.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Okay, discuss it at the next
meeting. Okay.
MS. RAISBECK: I'll strip down the -- excuse me.
MR. JOHANSEN: Go ahead.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Go ahead.
MS. RAISBECK: I'll strip down the motion and I'll
just say, the board votes to forward these numbers from the
department to the mayor.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: For the 2007 fiscal year.
MS. RAISBECK: Yeah. For the --
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Proposed budget for CIP and
operating budgets for the fiscal year 2007.
MR. JOHANSEN: Do you state that to the board --
recommends to the mayor -- approval -- is that what you want
to say? You said votes, it doesn't compute.
MS. RAISBECK: Sorry. Well, if I can say to meet
a -- I mean, this is now discussion. To meet deadlines,
this has to go to the mayor's office. I think they are
saying there will be changes before -- maybe before it goes
to the mayor, there will be changes in the numbers. We have
comments we want to make about overall --
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Again, Sally, I don't mean to
cut you off, okay, I'm being very gentle about this, but I
know Ralph has to go. I guess what I'm asking for before I
adjourn this meeting, I would like to hear a motion
recommending approval of the operating and CIP budgets for
the fiscal year 2007, so that it may be forwarded to the
mayor.
MR. JOHANSEN: So moved.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: I heard "so moved." Do I
hear a second?
MR. HIRANAGA: What's the motion?
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Approval of the operating and
CIP budgets for the fiscal year 2007, so that it may be
forwarded to the mayor.
MR. HIRANAGA: Second.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: All those in favor say "aye."
MS. RAISBECK: Aye.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Aye.
VICE-CHAIR OKAMURA: You know, I was going to say
that I have no problem --
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: You cannot discuss it.
VICE-CHAIR OKAMURA: No.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Okay, then it doesn't go.
Okay. Budget cannot be forwarded. Okay, meeting adjourned.
(The proceedings were concluded at 3:00 p.m.)
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